Fuel To The Fire Of Acclimatization

[toppman]

lol no prizes for guessing who that person is ! i wont have a go at you but even you realise you do agree with andy a little to much for my liking, it would seem andy likes ad hominem aswell maybe theres a fan club in there somewhere

 

[cheesy feet]

lol no prizes for guessing who that person is ! i wont have a go at you but even you realise you do agree with andy a little to much for my liking, it would seem andy likes ad hominem aswell maybe theres a fan club in there somewhere

Quite a few people actually What other time have I agreed with andy.I know I have, but why does that matter? 'agree with andy a little to much for my likeing'.I don't even know what thats supposed to mean...Once again your arguments are pointless, and you don't have anything to back them up with.

 

[andywg]

i know what ad hominem is and it means against the man not person but im sure you knew that.

It all depends on how you like to translate. Wiki disagrees with you:The Latin homo refers to all humans; ad hominem is therefore a gender-neutral term (the male-specific term, if it existed, would be ad virum).

you may have used the term in 5 threads but how many times per thread do you use it? i would say its excessive

Let's say I have used it a total of 40 times, that is in less than 1% of my posts, hardly excessive, just that you reply to those I state it in. Strange you have now dropped your "mostly" arguing in posts claim. Couldn't find any evidence to support what you were saying?

you say you find it funny at being called a bully but if i was you i would take note of that and think why would they say that, im sure a look back at this thread to name but one would give you a good idea.

Why don't you look through that thread and see why I was originally called a bully? I know of at least two mods who also found it hilarious.

you seem to jump to conclusions very quickly andy gcse level at best? this is another prime case of you jumping to your un-supported opinions, it was not gcse infact.

My apologies, I could have sworn you previously stated you are 17 and are one year into your plumbing apprenticeship. I suppose it is possible (though rare) that before your GCSEs at 16 you could have studied a higher psychology course. Out of interest, what level was it?

after reading some aggresive posts on this thread alone it would seem that you beleive that by putting an emotion at the end of a sarcastic/belittling/offensive/sly etc post that would make it ok, when as you should know it doesnt, many people can say something offensive then finsish it off with a jokey laugh or smile in reality but it doesnt take away the intent that lies in what your saying, you know what you do and its only been recently that people have cottoned on to what your really like, and your afraid this will ruin your status

This is precious. You are psychoanalysing what I think from posting? One of the main reasons for anyone to use an emoticon is to impart some fuller meaning to the tone in which it should be read. If there is a cheeky wink at the end one should not read it as being the most serious post. People haven't just "cottoned on" to me have they? I was called a bully way back in October 2006, that would imply they have known for some time, no? Do you not think if I was really that bad that I would receive PMs from mods telling me they find my posts in this very thread interesting?As to my status? What status is this?If people really get as upset as you are trying to infer by what I post, then to (slightly mis) quote CFC, I dread to think how they cope with the real world... Again, I notice you have provided no evidence to back up your earlier claims. Congratulations on, once more, proceeding to attack the person (happier now?). Ever thought about swapping the plumbing for politician?

'agree with andy a little to much for my likeing'.I don't even know what thats supposed to mean...

It means he has fallen for the ad hominem logical fallacy. He has some issues with me (god knows what) and therefore anyone who agrees with me, and anything I state has a problem with it.

 

[toppman]

in summary andy i do have a problem with you i wont deny that, i think you are a complete idiot who thrives off other peoples inferior "intelligence", people like you dont know the real world we live in today and it would take you getting beaten up or mugged or something to realise how un-important you really are, you probably go to work all day in a dead end job (i may be wrong) with no authority then you come home load up your computer and come into this little world of yours where you are a king and everyone else is below you.
when your a 26 year old who has to come to a forum to prove his intelligence there is something wrong there
i really would love to meet you in real life to show you how the world is outside your computer screen, and im 17! i would still say iv got more experience in life.

as for cheesyfeet, you in my eyes are andys little sidekick that tries to succeed by leeching off whatever andy can get, i know it, he knows it, we know it

 

[cheesy feet]

Ok people say it.Pleeeeeasse just say it. Do you all believe i'm andys little sidekick who leeches of whatever he can get at .I certainly don't.But somehow toppman has answered it for me.Once again your 'feelings' are starting to ruin a thread.Just drop it.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Some things that have not been approached (or deeply explored) in this thread that I consider to be of interest...

1) Consideration of the time period in which temperature equalization occurs due to mass in relation to body size and other physical considerations. It takes time for any natural body (or object) to equalize with the surrounding temperature, and physical characteristics of the body such as natural insulations have a direct impact on the speed of equalization. This of course is related to the "short-term" effects of acclimatization vs the long-term effects which would be much more inclined towards the regulation of body chemistry as certain enzymes work best in different temperature ranges and pH levels.

2) Behavioral factors that may affect stress levels in "floated" vs "plopped" fish. i.e. Does the suspension of a fish in a clear container in a body of water contribute to a "panic reflex" in response to being "trapped" thus increases activity levels / respiration / and other biological chemical signals.

 

[andywg]

I know I shouldn't, but to hell with it, some things cannot be left unanswered...

in summary andy i do have a problem with you i wont deny that, i think you are a complete idiot who thrives off other peoples inferior "intelligence", people like you dont know the real world we live in today and it would take you getting beaten up or mugged or something to realise how un-important you really are, you probably go to work all day in a dead end job (i may be wrong) with no authority then you come home load up your computer and come into this little world of yours where you are a king and everyone else is below you.
when your a 26 year old who has to come to a forum to prove his intelligence there is something wrong there
i really would love to meet you in real life to show you how the world is outside your computer screen, and im 17! i would still say iv got more experience in life.

Really, and on what evidence are you basing these assumptions? Oh yes. none, again.

More life experience eh? Within the last 12 months I have had my flat set fire to, a car we own sprayed with graffiti, and our other car broken into. By the age of 19 I was running a kitchen from ordering the food to preparing it, organising a cleaning rota and then at the end of the week performing a stock count followed by a GP calculation.

At the age of 19 I returned to college paying for an engineering qualification out of my own funds. To help fund the second year I started working nights in the summer in a heavy industrial unit (galvanisation). The nights became permanent and I spent a year working 10pm till 6am before sleeping 3 hours, doing a full day at college, and then another 2-3 hours before heading to work again. During this time I had my car stolen while at college.

Once that year was over I hit overtime working regular 16 hours shifts all week and even a 20 hour shift. All this so I could afford to live. Finally I got a job in London in an office in Insolvency working for the government. This resulted in a 4 hour commute every day (supposing no idiot jumped in front of the train on me).

So little 17 year old trainee plumber who has done a psychology course, who has the most real world experience now? Do you have any idea what it is like having to work all day just to afford enough money to pay the bills and then have to worry about some idiot setting fire to your home while you sleep? I know you don't, because people who have been through that don't tell others they no nothing about that they have no knowledge of the real world.

You talk about me coming on here to try and assert some power trip? If that is the case, your continued attacks mean you are respecting the position I occupy and are desperate to "knock me down" so you can take my place.

as for cheesyfeet, you in my eyes are andys little sidekick that tries to succeed by leeching off whatever andy can get, i know it, he knows it, we know it

this just roffles my waffles

As to me needing to be beaten up, did you not see what happened on tour?

 

[merry78]

i have found this a very interesting debate so far, with a few obvious exceptions.
not to weigh in where i'm not welcome, but i have to say that the logic used by some posters here is very beneficial for getting to the facts behind theories, and i have read this with interest here and in other threads. I would like to form my own opinion on methods of acclimation, and it is helpful for me to have the theories stripped down in the way that is happening here, not to see who is right or wrong, but to get closer to finding a method that addresses the real issues the fish are dealing with in acclimation. so, thankyou to the posters here and elsewhere who use logic and/or science to explore theories on fishkeeping, it is to the benefit of my fish, and i'm learning a lot!

 

[andywg]

Some things that have not been approached (or deeply explored) in this thread that I consider to be of interest...

1) Consideration of the time period in which temperature equalization occurs due to mass in relation to body size and other physical considerations. It takes time for any natural body (or object) to equalize with the surrounding temperature, and physical characteristics of the body such as natural insulations have a direct impact on the speed of equalization. This of course is related to the "short-term" effects of acclimatization vs the long-term effects which would be much more inclined towards the regulation of body chemistry as certain enzymes work best in different temperature ranges and pH levels.

2) Behavioral factors that may affect stress levels in "floated" vs "plopped" fish. i.e. Does the suspension of a fish in a clear container in a body of water contribute to a "panic reflex" in response to being "trapped" thus increases activity levels / respiration / and other biological chemical signals.

The above, and I would add the point made previously by RDD about how we are not really acclimatising them to a new temperature, so much as possibly putting them back to one thy hafve not entirely acclimatised from, would be the main things I would love to find out more about.

 

[toppman]

nice life story andy i almost shed a tear

dont you think if all thats happened in the last 12 months people are trying to tell you something?

and please dont call me little without evidence to back up your claim, as it is oh so obvious evidence means alot to you.
you also ask the question "so who has the most life experience now" as if its some conclusive question, far from it.
also in a previous thread you absolutely slammed me for typing things like ur, u, b4 etc and you have quite clearly typed "no" instead of "know"

as for this position you believe you have, i admit when i first joined i thought wow hes quite nice and helpful but then as i got to know the place your true colours showed and now i see you for what you are, a jumped up, power craving, patronising being.

 

[ArauraDiscus]

In other words, you still haven't actually identified what my stand was, or exactly where it was "proved wrong", yes?

Again, how convenient that you have done exactly that which I was accused of, ignoring posts which offer a conflicting opinion to your own (from members that are not me as well).

What post am I ignoring. Lol
And to anyone dissing andy, stop, only I can!!! lol jk

Andys a good fellow, you need people like this on a board, if everyone agreed there would be no development. If everyone agreed that the world was flat, where would we be now? He offers interesting points, that I don't personally agree with, and yes some posts seem holier than thou to me, but he's better than some people I deal with on message boards, I'll give him that. Btw thanks for your ideas, I don't agree but thank you anyways.

 

[andywg]

nice life story andy i almost shed a tear

Thank you. It means a lot.

dont you think if all thats happened in the last 12 months people are trying to tell you something?

Yep. And the moment I can afford to move, I will no longer be living in Southend. If you are trying to imply that the vandlism is from disgruntled members of TFF, I highly doubt it. I also doubt the way I type on the forum really upsets locals, as the one local member I have met seemed to find me fine and showed no inclination of wanting to arson my house.

and please dont call me little without evidence to back up your claim, as it is oh so obvious evidence means alot to you.

Depends on your definition of little. I am the little brother of 3, despite being taller and heavier than the middle brother. Little can refer to age. You are younger than me (evidenced by your profile and previous posts). Therefore the comments tands defended. Nice try though.

you also ask the question "so who has the most life experience now" as if its some conclusive question, far from it.

So far from conclusively answered is my question of you that you have failed to respond to it. What does this tell us?

also in a previous thread you absolutely slammed me for typing things like ur, u, b4 etc and you have quite clearly typed "no" instead of "know"

One typo does not a 13375P34K3R make.

as for this position you believe you have, i admit when i first joined i thought wow hes quite nice and helpful but then as i got to know the place your true colours showed and now i see you for what you are, a jumped up, power craving, patronising being.

Strange, I know many others who have the opposite view that I will help out where I can and offer advice on thing I have experienced. Ask -germ-, tolak or steelhealr.

What post am I ignoring. Lol

You haven't replied to these points:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...t&p=1715276

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...t&p=1715580

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...t&p=1715581

While I don't expect you to personally rebut all posts made, I am interested how you align your position that the koi club article supports 30 mins acclimatisation when the author of said articles says not to bother if the fish has been bagged for 2 hours+.

 

[toppman]

i didnt once say it was tff members vandlasing your property i would of thought it was just general people that dislike you, it cant be that hard to fins someone.

does your comment about little meaning age, really "tands" defended?

i pick and choose what i respond to because some stuff that you come out with really isnt worth my time, and i dont know why "One typo does not a 13375P34K3R make" < that is your usual impersenation of how people talk in texts and emails, i have never once seen anything remotely like that.

you may find people treat you better if you stop acting the big man and come back down to earth

 

[andywg]

i didnt once say it was tff members vandlasing your property i would of thought it was just general people that dislike you, it cant be that hard to fins someone.

Since we are typo bashing, being a mammal, I find it very hard to "fins" someone. I have no fins to do so. Got any spare?

does your comment about little meaning age, really "tands" defended?

Yep, it stands too, since your only response is typo bashing.

i pick and choose what i respond to because some stuff that you come out with really isnt worth my time, and i dont know why "One typo does not a 13375P34K3R make" < that is your usual impersenation of how people talk in texts and emails, i have never once seen anything remotely like that.

Hmm, I note you have no replies of substance. wonder why? Maybe it's your "impersenation" of someone who can't actually debate very well?

you may find people treat you better if you stop acting the big man and come back down to earth

Hello Mr Kettle, my name is Mr Pot.


Edit---

I have had my fun now and will ignore anything off topic from toppymens who has only joined this thread as a spoiler and has contributed nothing towards the actual debate. Let's try and get back to some science relating to acclimatisation, yes?

 

[toppman]

if i really wanted to pretend to be poor at arguing andy you would be my first impression as you very much are the worst person to have an argument with as you resort to childish things such as pretending to be a tea kettle and say undermining other peoples achievments while your only success is running a kitchen and struggling financially, oh and being vandalised by people who have something against you (cant think why)

im not going to criticise you, i dont like you simple as that, but i would like you to open your eyes and treat other people the way you want to be treated, i have proven on more than one occasion now that when you are confronted and disturbed from your patronising ways then you get very aggressive and decide to offend people, i would say this is because people dont want to say anything to you, but i will because i dont like people like you who constantly undermine people im seen so many people like you and they never get away with it for long, thats why im telling you although im sure your not like it at work or anywhere else other than this forum