For All Those Who Want A Squid

[OohFeeshy]

The problem is really we are told evolution is true since kindergarten. And as you go through your education system they continue to pound it into your head.

Actually, I don't think they teach much about evolution... I know they haven't taught anything about it to us yet, and I've been at school for... 13 years or so, including pre-school.

 

[Tiggs]

ok......one word for you.....





DINOSUARS!!!!

(wheres Bill Hicks when you need him )

 

[Opcn]

I'm afraid you misread me, when I said that there is proof that evolution occurs I meant that there is proof that evolution occurs, Maybe you need me to spell it out for you, I have 6-7 cases I can tell you about, but I'll just give one. In the indopacific there was a little population of shrimp living inbetween two very close volcanic islands, one big and one small, the small volcanic island irrupted and an isthmus formed, seventeen years later scientists who were studying the shrimp population noticed that they would no longer interbreed, the shrimp had changed coloration and no longer recognized each other as being matable species and there for became two different species. Evolution is about as secure as gravity, the only things still up for debate are how much it has occurd and how it does occur.

Man created the theory to make himself feel secure. Its in our nature to try to explains things, where we come from. So its only natural that we make these assumptions, problem is its not true.

Listen to yourself here, apply what you just said to creation

As for the conservation of matter and the laws of thermo dynamics scientists are still trying to shape our understanding of the universe, we don't claim to know everything, however how the universe was created has little effect on evolution, lets say a higher concsiousness made the universe, might they have stopped after setting the system up to run rather than building every different species? You seem to be looking at the situation and thinking that just because something could have happened that it must have, that is a failing of logic and a waste of human intelect.

There is one book out there that provides questions about the validity of evolution that have any merit, Darwins black box, there are cases in that book that science has not solved, there are however cases that science has solved.

 

[Lynden]

Evolution is indisputable. There is a vast amount of information to support it. The theory of creation is simply someones belief. It is only religion. Like Opcn said, it is no more debatable than the fact that gravity occurs. There is absolutly no information to support creation. The evidence of evolution towers over that of creation. Im not trying to be mean to the super Christians out there, but take a look around. Its not the year 1 CE anymore. Humanity has gone far, far beyond the creation theory.

Opcn, you could not have been more right about this one.

 

[andywg]

Evolution is disputable. Any theory can be disputed. It's how we refine them.

But as has been mentioned: Creationism does it backwards. They believe God made life and so look for evidence of this. traditional science is to observe/experiment, hypothesise, observe/experiment again and if the hypothesis runs true then you can work on making it a theory.

 

[Opcn]

Like I said before, how much of an effect evolution has hadd is disputable, how evolution occurs is disputable (aliens couldbe involved, it could be gods doing, it could be those damn mice, it could be the survival of the fittest that we see occuring on farms everywere).

 

[Dragonscales]

I disagree. There is much more proof to prove evolution false then there is to prove it true. Upon further unbiased research you would discover that the theory constantly contradicts itself.

The same could be said of religion. Take the bible for instance. According to the bible God is free from sin and cannot stand to be around sin, yet he single-handedly wiped out thousands (or more) people on several different occassions - the flood, soddom and gomorrah, etc. There is also the instance of jesus' conception which could be seen as a form of adultery and rape/molestation depending on how you look at it (before anybody starts firing, I have an explanation ). It doesn't state in the bible exactly how Mary was impregnated, only that an angel appeared before her saying she would have Jesus. Mary was married to Joseph yet had a child to God and as far as the bible says she was told she would have Jesus, she wasn't asked. Depending on the way you look at it that could be interpreted as adultery and rape or molestation.

To be completely fair, the second example is open to interpretation and inconclusive due to lack of evidence (for all we know God may not have physically impregnated her or taken to her with a turkey baster, etc It is still sort of intrusive and a bit of a violation regardless though considering there was no consent) but either way, the first example is iron-clad if we are to believe the bible is 100% correct and true.

The problem is really we are told evolution is true since kindergarten. And as you go through your education system they continue to pound it into your head. Evolution is a religeon, it takes just as much faith to believe in it as it does to believe in creation. Because after all, if you wernt there at the dawn of creation, your going to have to put faith into what you believe in.

Considering that religion has been around and taught for alot longer than the theory of evolution (and still is, if not more so than evolution. Personally I had classes in public primary school called RE and RI - Religious Education & Religious Instruction - yet I never had classes specifically for evolution theory), that kind of makes that argument obsolete.

Science states that nothing is created or destroyed. So how would the universe come into existence? Some big bang theory where matter just explodes and is constantly moving outward? Well then where did that matter come from? The questions just keep stacking ontop of eachother. Man created the theory to make himself feel secure. Its in our nature to try to explains things, where we come from. So its only natural that we make these assumptions, problem is its not true.

According to Christians God always existed as well, he always has been and always will be. Considering that, then how is the big bang theory any less plausible? Both require the belief that something has always existed - God from a christian view point and elements from a big bang theorist's. Incidentally there is plenty of evidence to support the claim that matter is recycled in the universe regardless of if the big bang theory is entirely right or not.

 

[squall7733]

Well consider this.

Evolution is a religion in itself. Even if there is no God, its a belief. It still requires faith to support evolution. Maybe a better term would be a Pseudo-Religeon.

Regardless, Evolution is the new religion on the block. Its only been around for 200 years, 200 years that it has been supported and people believed in it. Although it had been hypothosized by Aristotle in the days of the Greeks. Looking at history, there has always been new religions popping up and falling, changing as well. Consider the acadians, babylonians, egyptians, and so many pre-history(before writting) races. It seems like every 200-500 years, something new comes along.

Christianity has existed from the begining. Although they were never called Christians until after Christ. This concept requires faith to believe in just as much as anything else.

It most certainly is true that evolution is relatively new to the world in the aspect of time. Evolutionists would argue that it has always existed, and that it just was not theorized until recently.

I cant help but think, after my time is gone, in another 200-500 years there will be a new, better religion. History always repeats itself. And everything we believe now wont even matter in that global aspect. Do you know anyone who believes in Greek religion in this day and age? Surely history will repeat itself and in another 1000 years, I wonder what we will believe in then.

My faith tells me Christianity will always been around, but thats what it is, faith. I dont need to prove it, its something I believe in strongly.

Well I dont want to debate, I'm just throwing this out here I wont toss arguements back and forth after this one unless someone asks a question. I know I'm the minority , but thats ok. Sometimes its not the majority that is right. "Few enter the Kingdom of Heaven"

 

[Ed4567]

Evolution is a religion in itself

No it's not!

As andywg has said on a number of occassions it is a theory- nothing less nothing more. The fact that it is remarkably good at explaining observations means that it is widely supported, in exactly the same way that gravity or relativity is.

 

[Opcn]

We are in a world werew it requires a bit of faith to bellieve anything. However science is set up in a way that should someone skeptical acctually care to prove it wrong they can try the experiments or look at the raw evidence and do so. Howeverskeptics rarely look at scientific evidence with an open mind, they come in with an open mind and they rarely even bother to look at what they want to disprove, I've heard so many antievolutionist complaining about how dogs don't turn into fish, when no evolutionist ever said anything like that occured. In politics, and in science and in theology its vitally important to acctually study your opposition in order to find holes to poke in it, you cannot just go on the word of others because every person something goes through put a bit of spin on it and you end up arguing against a spun evolution and you look like a fool.

However you haven't really ben debating, all you've said is that its not true, you haven't backed up your argument.

 

[Lynden]

I, personally, do have faith in God. I just dont think that He went and BAM! created everything that we know of today in a single foul swoop. In fact, it is actually impossible that He could have done this; He technically only has existed for about 10 000 years, when the single-god religions first showed up. In fact, there is still some who believe that there are many gods, like the Shintoism religion (correct me if i am wrong). So what do they think? There is no all powerful god in their religion who supposedly created everything. I suppose that we can just believe what we believe here, and not let anyone convince us differently. Because they wont be. You cant just grab a catholic by the hair and yell "EVOLUTION IS THE TRUTH! CREATION IS ONLY YOUR BELIEF!" in his ear and expect him to lose faith. Nor can you yell "GOD CREATED ALL!" in an evolutionists ear and expect him to go to the catholic church everyday to pray.

Therefore, the discussion is complete. Beliefs simply cannot be changed, no matter how much evidence there is against them.

 

[Ed4567]

cant just grab a catholic by the hair and yell "EVOLUTION IS THE TRUTH! ...

If you did, you would be showing your complete misunderstanding of how science works.

 

[Riley]

Exactly...thats why you can't.

 

[Lynden]

cant just grab a catholic by the hair and yell "EVOLUTION IS THE TRUTH! ...

If you did, you would be showing your complete misunderstanding of how science works.

Exactly...thats why you can't.

Yes. And I would love to see someone try to prove THIS wrong, you buggers! Henceforth, I have completed this discussion with my last post.

(P.S., cant wait for the next post! )

 

[squall7733]

Its a good finish I completely agree, beliefs are hard to change.