Football 2009/10 Season Talk

[Arfie]

If you read on you'll see it was 5 players in the squad...not 7...and 1 of them had never played a game for us....yeh i was slightly off with the zero because those players had such little involvment in the team at the time...plus it was off of the top of my head without googling information.

How can it only be 5? 6 of the current Arsenal squad were named in the CL final squad in 2006 I'll list them for you AGAIN - Fabregas, Eboue, Almunia, Senderos, Clichy and van Persie and in total 7 of your current squad were on Arsenals books in the 2004/05 season, dress it how you like, they just were. Slightly off? When you thought I was one out you accused me of massive exaggeration, but you getting SIX wrong is slight?

You say last 30 years but if you look at statto.com you'll see there stats go back 25 years and we are still on top ...and considering i'm 28 years old, i remember what i have been alive to remember....its not like i'm bringing up how we dominated football in the 1930's is it now?

I picked 30 years as an arbitrary figure to prove the point of picking random years can show whatever I want. I doubt you picked 20 because that's what you remembered, you can't even remember who played for your club 3 years ago But if Statto.com only goes back 25 does that mean it doesn't exist? and I know why you picked 20 years, I just wonder if you know.

Anyway for the record, using the honours listed on the Arsenal website and the Liverpool website I'll give you the 25 years from 1984 to 2009:

League - Liverpool 4 - Arsenal 5
FA Cup - Liverpool 5 - Arsenal 5
League Cup - Liverpool 6 - Arsenal 5

That makes us level, now lets add europe in

European Cup - Liverpool 2 - Arsenal 0
UEFA Cup - Liverpool 1 - Arsenal 0

That puts Liverpool 3 up in meaningful competitions, now the meaningless things like cup winners cups, super cups and charity shields

Charity Shield - Liverpool 6 - Arsenal 5
European Cup Winners Cup - Liverpool 0 - Arsenal 1
Fairs Cup - Liverpool 0 - Arsenal 1
Super Cup - Liverpool 1 - Arsenal 0
European Super Cup - Liverpool 2 - Arsenal 0

That puts Liverpool 5 up in total if you want to include meaningless stuff or Liverpool are 3 up if you want to stick to real trophies, either way Arsenal aren't even better over 25 years . If you want to quote me stats, please try and get them right.

I mean you can harp on about past achievements as much as you like ...i mean man utd have over taken you now anyway...so your in no position to scream about the 'all conquering' liverpool anymore.

I wasn't harping on about past achievements, you were (20 years), I'm happy enough to keep it recent. Once again your ignorance is staggering, manyoo haven't overtaken us, they've drawn level on 18 leagues (5 ahead of Arsenal) and 3 European cups to our 5. So yes, we are still the most successful club in England

But I'm not screaming about all conquering Liverpool, just correcting an Arsenal fan who has trouble with facts.

Does the cry for help from manyoo fans signal the acceptance that you've got it wrong? The difference is that I'm not stupid enough to claim that stats show that Liverpool are better than united, because in the short and medium term the facts show otherwise, though long term we still pip it. Nor am I stupid enough to claim the recent head to head results make us better than them. As much as I hate it, I know that they've been better and am man enough to admit it rather than try to hide behind false statements, you should try it.

You say you have won more in the last 5 years other than the fluke cl win?

A fluke FA Cup in 2006. It's interesting that you choose to demean a CL win, something you have failed to achieve, by fluke or otherwise.

what have you won exactly?....3-2 on final positions (which will soon be 3-2 to us after this season...means #105###.)...

Even if you finish above us this season it'll still be 3:2 to us over 5 years as we were above you in 2006, 2007 and 2009

you won the fa cup 4 years ago against West Ham and we won the Fa cup 5 years ago against Man Utd...

Oh look it was 2005, I thought is was 2004, my mistake, you still trail by one cup and at least I'm only making mistakes about your team and not my own, that would be embarrassing.

I could literally go about this forever and have a million things to say...but i know I'll never stop.

Fine by me, it's interesting seeing just how much you get wrong. Or you could just accept that to moan about Liverpool fans harping on about history while trying to use 20 year old stats to prove Arsenal are better is hypocritical. Over the 5 years our current manager has been here, we have finished above you more times than you finished above us and we won one more trophy, not a mickey mouse one, the Champions League final and one that your club has been unable to win, luckily or otherwise. Anthing over that is history so to try an use it makes you guilty of the very thing you claim to hate about Liverpool fans.

You have no idea who was playing for you in 2006, come to that you have no idea who has played for you this season. You've told me Senderos doesn't count as he's not played this season when he's played 2 games, you said Eboue is only a reserve, yet according to Arsenal.com, he's started 5 league games and come on as a sub in the other 5 and had 4 European starts, appearing in every league game and starting every european games is hardly reserve is it?

Arfie

 

[Cichlid_Crazy]

Ha well it looks like your all conquering best in the world Liverpool team are out of the Champions League as well as the premiership and the Carling cup....

 

[holidayinn]

So..if Liverpool finish 3rd, do they go through to the UEFA cup? Guess they're more or less out of the ECL as relying on other results if they are to progress. Even though Pool are UTD's biggest rivals sad to see them (any English team) exit the ECL at this stage, happened to Utd a few years back, and they didnt even qualify for the UEFA that season but came back the following season to win the EPL and reach the semi's of ECL (if I remember rightly).

Cracking strike by Babel tho, waited a long time for something like that. Team of the round must be Rubin Kazan, almost done the double over Barca.

My issue with Liverpool and Rafa is since he's arrived he's spent more on players then any other team in EPL (sure, significant amount spent on youth, which I dont agree with any team doing inc UTD), and sure his net spend is better then other rival teams, but the gross suggests he gets things wrong more often then he gets things right. Thinking about the strikers you had and the ones that remain, N'Gog will be a top player in years to come...Voronin cr*p, and Babel not trusted...surely could have done with a Bellamy, Keane, Crouch, even Baros, Fowler (lol) etc etc in the squad at the mo.

RVP similar but more technical then Torres, have to disagree with that one completely. In the prem only Drogba can be compared to Torres (and Drogba's better (as he's in his prime))...there is also Adebayor (poor mans version of both).

Going back to UTD, they're playing poor football so far this season (wont he epl playing poor footy last season), and although I'd bet on them winning against Chelski, I dont see it happening, a draw would be a reasonable result.

 

[Cichlid_Crazy]

I don't mind Man Utd...or obviously Arsenal doing well in the Champions League...i detest Chelski because of the way they bought there sucsess and i just love to see Liverpool lose because their fans are so #41#### pompus/ dillusional.

I wouldn't say Torres was similar to Drog in anyway... Adebayor is very similar to Drogba but more technically gifted...but not as good of a finisher..i think he will surpass the Drog in a few years tho.....both are very physical players...old fashioned type centre forwards.

Van Perise and Torres's movment is very similar...both quick, both skillful, both have magic touch and 'bergkamp' like shots....the only difference is Van Persie also has that 'Thierry Henry' thing where he assists team mates and starts deeper and can also work as a playmaker...as is evident in his 8 goals and 8 assists from 12 games so far this season...plus his goals for holland.

Torres is very much a out and out 'feed me' type striker....like a faster version of Andy Cole who can actually finish...or a Romario....he is a very selfish striker...which is a good thing but tends to rely on Gerrard and co and falters without them....whereas Van Persie is not the target man.

I'm deffo not slagging off Torres hes a great 'Fox in the box' and probably the best goal scorer we have seen since Thierry Henry.... I think he would be a better player at say Utd or Chelsea tho...even if he didnt score as many.

 

[holidayinn]

I see what you mean but I still maintain Torres to be more similar to Drogba then to RVP. IMO Drogba's best playing upfront by himself, with his back to goal he is supreme. Torres is exactly the same, playing upfront by himself, with his back to goal, one of the best in the world. Both carry a physical and an aerial threat couple that with anticipation and composure, classic numer 9's.

RVP I definitely agree with you is the closest the Dutch have come to replacing Bergkamp. Technically supremely gifted, striking of the ball excellent, good pace and vision (more of a number 10 then a number 9).

Personally I think Drogba's the best striker in the world and has been for the last few years, even in his final season at Marseille, he was easily one of the worlds best. It's a shame he plays for Chelski and a shame he often too easily loses his cool.

Anyway, soon Rooney will show all these pretenders who is the true King to the throne...muhahahaha

 

[Cichlid_Crazy]

In that respect Torres + Drog are both Target men (As is Adebayor)...but Torres is a pace and skill with crazy shots whereas Drogba is a scrappy poachy whos game is based on power...tap ins and headers...or making mugs of clumsy defenders (Senderos)

Despite of their different positions...Torres of Atletico before he joined Liver-poo was very much a Van Persie clone....and i think eventually Wenger wants to move Van Persie into that all out role...hence why he is playign him central when he is very much a left sided player.

It always made sense to me to play Arshavin on the right of a 4-3-3 and RVP on the left then a target man in the middle....he didnt seem to have the faith with Ade....Bendtner is not very good (yet) and Eduardo is also a left sided player....so he pushes RVP into the central role.

Even so i'd like Wenger to buy a true CF ...somebody who plays like fat Ronaldo used to.

 

[holidayinn]

Was just checking the footy news and came across these quotes today, that kind of support my views (see above). They come straight from the horse's mouth.

RVP - "I don't see myself as a true out-and-out striker. Guys likes Fernando Torres and Didier Drogba, they are real killers. I feel I play between a target striker and a supporting striker. I am a combination of both."

-------

RIP Robert Enke.

 

[Cichlid_Crazy]

Yeh, he has the attributes to push himself into that target man role tho...i'd still prefer Wenger to buy a target.

Also if you read my last post you'll see i'm not disagreeing with you....and i explained what i meant....which is pretty much what RVP said himself.

Its like comparing Romario to Pele...both have a very similar style of play, but different kinds of players.

My only point was RVP was playing like a more technical version of Torres....meaning he is assisting as well as scoring, i wouldnt say that was to outlandish.

Also don't forget Thierry Henry played the support striker role x Target man hybrid (RVP) for years...assisting as many as he was scoring and he scored more goals for Arsenal than Torres or Drogba do for there respective clubs....and he set up more than the wingers at the respective clubs.

 

[holidayinn]

I wouldn't compare Romario to Pele. Pele was a complete player whereas Romario was a poacher, all they really have in common is they scored tons of goals and are Brazilian. Anyway thats a different subject, prob best left alone lol.

But I do understand what you're saying CC and I think both of us are saying very similar but slightly different things. Let's leave it at RVP is in between a Bergkamp and a Torres type player and has the capacity to play both roles.

Thierry was probably the best foriegn import ever to play in the premiership. But part of the reason Adebayor was bought was due to his physical presence, Thierry's only weakness was his aerial ability. Just like to mention that Wenger himself said Berbatov reminded him of Henry (a shame that was at Spurs and not at Utd tho).

I think Bendter could fit the target-man role very well. Last season he had a great game against Utd, from what I've seen his only problems are his finishing and a slight attitude (e.g. giving the opposition the team sheet and caught with his trousers down, must be more!). Though you're constantly linked with Chamakh so suggestions in the media are that Wenger is looking for that target-man.

Back to Utd, Nani needs to grow up. Trash talking Fergie done him no favours, blames everyone but himself, what a t***.

C'mon Ireland!!!!!! and Bosnia!!!!!

 

[Cichlid_Crazy]

Meh injurys = loss of form and its starting now for us..

...Roll on January signings.

I can see why Wenger didn't shake hands with Hughes tonight, did anyone see the lines ups? we only had 1 starter and they were full strength.

Even Utd never go full strength in the CC...and City were celebrating like they just destroyed our best team.

Meh.

No excuses for the Chelsea match..other than we missed a few vital players...but the team we put out shouldnt of been destroyed like that either.

I'm just hoping we don't drop to many points between now and January so he can at least buy a Striker, Defensive Midfielder, Back Up Goalie and a Centre Back.

If it was my shopping list I'd go for..

Flamini or Vieria or Toulalan or Matiudi as the DM
Frey or Loris or Green as the goalie
Hangelaand or Servet Cetin or Sakho as the Centre back
Huntelaar or Henry or Gingac as the striker

 

[mr130gallon]

id dont have the time to read this whole thread... so i have two words


GO LIVERPOOL!


...but they arent doing all to good this year, they lost a very embarrassing loss last weekend to portsmouth, worst team in the league this year. but burnley beat man utd and liverpool beat burnley 4-0. and liverpool also beat man utd this year. and both times they played last year.

i know liverpool will most likely not win this year... though it would be nice, but i would rather have chelsea or arsenal or anybody but man utd win. i dont want to have to say that man utd has more top flight league wins in english history, i would be very angry.

anyway, ill be keeping an eye on this thread so i can make replys to post rather than ranting about my team doing bad lol

 

[mattlee]

MAN UTD JUST LOST TO LEEDS

well done leeds and dont cry too much man utd fans

 

[ALW]

MAN UTD JUST LOST TO LEEDS

well done leeds and dont cry too much man utd fans

Loved it!!! Fergie Time,Fergie Time,Fergie Time!

 

[simonas]

I support Man Utd and I can prove Man Utd are better than LFC by stats!!!!

In the fantasy football Arfie is 5th and I;m second so that just proves it!!!

oh and yesterday was crap for man utd and Leeds played better than a div 1 team... only good thing maybe that Fergoie strengthens in window, we need a big man up front Valencia put a load of good crosses in that went begging withour little front line and Berba can;t move or jump or do anything to be honest

 

[Knox213]

Hmm

I Play Football.

I Only like going to football match's

or watching them at the pub.

Why Dont i like watching it at home?

Just pure boring.