Flowerhorn Project

hahaha.. I'll keep my mouth shut and my eyes open :D boy o boy i really wanna know the finding of the results.. but for sure breeding fh/ff are way more complex than just putting two fish of different or same strains together..

but what i really would like you crack is the code or strain of how a true GM ( golden Monkey) is produced...
a Gm is what some would consider as an ideal trait of what they would want in a FH.

And as the same with a true FF ( Fortune Fish) these two species has no zz or Flowerhorn blood in em.

ooh thanks, finally someone is curious enough that they will put it under the microscopes...
BEST of LUCK!!!


best regards,
vanz aka paintsn
 
Red devils most certainly are not a colour variation of midas, they are two completely different species! Closely related, make no mistake, but RDs are Cichlasoma labiatus while midas are Cichlasoma citrinellum. (EDIT: Of course, these two species have been crossed so much that you'd be lucky to find a pure bred specimen of either.)

Also, I don't think T is saying Texas cichlids are hybrids, he's saying there are different strains of FH that have more blood from one fish than others... the only hybrid in that list of strains is the KK parrot, all others are legitimate species.

If you're ever in doubt, Google the common name of the fish followed by "scientific name". If the fish is scientifically classified it is not a hybrid :)

they can be wrong. I do not like the clissification cichlosoma because severums used to be cichlosoma severum. now they are heros severus
 
Yeah, they can be wrong, but I hardly see how that could be the case here since both midas and RDs came in a number of colour variations... how could one be a colour variant of the other when they both come in different colour forms? That doesn't make any sense. I also don't really see what the genus has to do with it, since they are both in that genus... are you saying you think one/both should be in a different genus? Why would that make a difference? Even if they are actually the same species one is still not a colour variant of the other; they would still be different subspecies as colour is not the only difference between the two (if it can even be considered a difference at all, since like I said, they both come in different colour forms.)
I'm beginning to get the sneaking suspicion that you're pulling some of this stuff out of thin air. :sly:

EDIT: Actually, aren't RDs and midas in the genus Amphilophus now? Or do I have that backwards?
 
Cool... I hope you can discover why Male Flower horn Kamfas can't breed with other Flowerhorn strains.
Easy bro.. just like somebody, and thats not me... cuz i got tested and proven.. that Male Kamfa is shooting Blanks :shout: :lol:

sorry i better shut my mouth..heheh
 
i already crossed off severum. BP project just started. Unlike me, my collegue might not want to release his results until he publishes them.

for my project, mine is for the purpose of ending the malaysian flowerhorn monoply. If someone else steals our work, then at least it would still help to bring the prices down. (who know?? maybe some malaysian breeders will pay big money for me to keep it secret lol)


I wonder if I could ask a few question?

Firstly, where is the backing for this project coming from? I know you have said that it is to end the malaysian monopoly, but if you are doing gene seqeucing with a team of around 100 people, then the costs of running it will be in the millions a week ( The cost of my ex's gene sequencing work was in the tens of thousands a week, and that was her working with just her proffessor for her Ph.D). I wonder if you could explain the source of their backing? I.e, is it done as a thesis or piece of Post Doc work? if so, which institution or funding body would be paying for this? ( I'd like to know for if I ever do my post doc and want some serious money! )

Also, why would you take samples from Gametes? Surely at that stage, you would be getting very high numbers of stem cells, which wouldn't be hugely useful to work from? Would you not want a "defined" to accurately match the indicator pairs?

If your working out what the genetic makeup of the flowerhorns are, surely you need a full or at least very nearly complete genetic sequence for all the various candidates. Looking on google, Journal Spy, British Library etc, I can't find that these have ever been publish for the fish in question. Could you state your source of them so I could have a look at them?

Why would a multi-million pound/dollar project be sourcing specimins as dead fish from the LFS? Surely this breaks all possibility of ensuring true scientific study and the ability to re-create results, meaning that it automatically would fail publishing when it went to peer review? Would you not source directly from a vivisection breeders so that the experiment can be repeated from a single line?

Which journal will you publish this in? How will you get it passed peer review based on the above? I ask becuase surely, in fact I am absolutely certain, there is no way that you would have been able to secure funding on the scale that you have if the work isn't published, either to push it into the open domain, or ( and I guess this is the case based on your mayalsian vbreeders comment ) if you/your backers wish to ensure that no patents can be taken out following your research?


To be honest, while what you are saying may be true, I have very grave doubts it, and currently believe it to be a fairy tale, having worked in a chemistry department that supported biosciences and lived through a thesis AND a post doc on gene sequencing by my ex. What you are saying I simply can't reconcile with what I know to be the case.

I would be interested in your answers to the above questions.

Steve
 
I'm with you RipSlider. Even if there are answers for the questions you posed, I find myself wondering how someone who thinks red devils are a colour morph of midas and oscars could hybridize with other NW cichlids common in the hobby would manage to get involved in such a project.
 
I would agree with you both too, it was when it was stated that firemouth genes were found that I began having doubts...come on FIREMOUTH??? :lol:
 
I would very much like to see the answers as well, as I'd be really interested in cross checking them, as would any good scientist.

Talking to my ex last night, she's talking about a figure for this work of around £15million/year absolute bare minimum, and she's dropped me an e-mail saying that she can't see that any research council in th US, UK, ANZAC or european union is supporting a project like this ( they publish all their non-classified research sponserships. ) She can't find any chiclid genom maps that hav been publically disclosed ( there have been quite a few fish published, but not many of the fish we kep, apart from danio's, which hav been mapped completely ( as they get used in research a lot as they are so hardy ).

This leaves the position where a private company MAY be doing it, but that would imply a profit motive, and I can't se how on is possible.

If there IS a profit motive, there is even greater a requirement to publish once patents have been secured ( so that no one else can mak similar patents - you can't patent once an idea is in the public domain) and that woul mean that any paper would have to be of outstanding quality, as if any questions were raised, then the patents would be contstable ( as happened a few times in the human genome project a couple of years ago ).

There is NO WAY at al
 
I'm so excited on this.

Talking about genetics I want to know how and why some FHs has bigger heads and some are soft and some are hard.

I was a Flower Horn breeder and never really understand the genetical structure of FHs and for me there's only 4 kinds of FHs.

1. Kamfa
2. Zhen Zhou
3. Golden
4. Kamalao

I hope you can tell me how these 4 species of FHs was formulated and how Ahh Soon (Malaysian Breeder) come up with these.

Honestly, I don't know what the answer is and I'll appreciate if you can educate me with this.
 
my Mouth is still shut :X lots of valuable and credential needed questions unaswered..hhhmmmmmm??? hahah.. i'm so excited...
 
Can we take it then that you know more than your are saying?

I.e, you know about this project?

Steve
 
my Mouth is still shut :X lots of valuable and credential needed questions unaswered..hhhmmmmmm??? hahah.. i'm so excited...

me too :hey:
man I'm waiting for meepster conclusion on some of his/ their findings specially about them genes.. cracker you know what is to what to about fh so.. :p .. and no Steve I know nothing about this project that they are conducting.. but just anxious and very interested to know what the findings are that's all
 
This is pretty cool. FH's are one of my favorite fish.

I have to agree with ~T~. I think there is a lot of Tri-Midas-festae mixed in somewhere along the lines.

Please keep us posted on this.
 

Most reactions

Back
Top