Flowerhorn or Red Terror

[HoldenOn]

For the red terror can I check which fish you are looking at is it Festae or Midas? For both long term I would want bigger than a 55 as they will get 10-12 inches, a minimum measurement I like to use is 6x length and 2x width so a 12 inch fish needs a minimum of a foot print of 6x2 foot. Some exceptions to this if the fish is known to be very lazy like some catfish or ambush predators.

Florwehorns are a bit different as their adult size is more unpredictable with some only ever getting to 8 inches or less which is quite manageable in a 4 foot tank but 55 might be a bit small long term.

With either fish in a 55 to grow out large water changes will be required to flush out growth hormones to avoid stunting and for both fish to grow their nuchal humps.

Wills

Thanks Wills

 

[indivicous]

For the red terror can I check which fish you are looking at is it Festae or Midas? For both long term I would want bigger than a 55 as they will get 10-12 inches, a minimum measurement I like to use is 6x length and 2x width so a 12 inch fish needs a minimum of a foot print of 6x2 foot. Some exceptions to this if the fish is known to be very lazy like some catfish or ambush predators.

Florwehorns are a bit different as their adult size is more unpredictable with some only ever getting to 8 inches or less which is quite manageable in a 4 foot tank but 55 might be a bit small long term.

With either fish in a 55 to grow out large water changes will be required to flush out growth hormones to avoid stunting and for both fish to grow their nuchal humps.

Wills

The water change flushes out the growth hormones right? Or do I have to do something else. Also I got a few pictures of the flowerhorn so if someone here can tell me if its a male or female it would be really appreciated

 

[indivicous]

 

[HoldenOn]

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Woah its beautiful. Someone will be along to sex it, but from a un-experienced eye looks promising.

 

[Wills]

Going by the fins I would say male - but it also looks to be quite a low grade FH. Colours dont look vibrant enough for the size and the nuchal hump isnt that developed - if thats the kind of thing you are after?

Wills

 

[indivicous]

Do you have any idea from the pictures on why it's so cheap? I also called around today and found out another store has a red dragon for $250, so thats also promising.

 

[indivicous]

Going by the fins I would say male - but it also looks to be quite a low grade FH. Colours dont look vibrant enough for the size and the nuchal hump isnt that developed - if thats the kind of thing you are after?

Wills

Ah okay thats why. I was hoping everything would develop if it got into a nice clean tank. Is that possible or am I wasting my time?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

With either fish in a 55 to grow out large water changes will be required to flush out growth hormones to avoid stunting and for both fish to grow their nuchal humps.

Wills

I'm sorry to ask, but would you mind elaborating on what this means please? The growth hormones?

I saw someone mention on here recently that fry exude a hormone that stunts the growth of other fry around them, because it would give them an advantage to be the largest fry who can eat larger food etc, and that regular water changes when raising fry helps them grow evenly and quickly, partly because you're removing/diluting that hormone from the water.

is it the same process as you're referring to here? Do you know if it applies to all/most fish species, or where I could learn more perhaps?
Sorry to bombard you with questions, it's just really interesting, and I'd like to learn more

 

[Wills]

I'm sorry to ask, but would you mind elaborating on what this means please? The growth hormones?

I saw someone mention on here recently that fry exude a hormone that stunts the growth of other fry around them, because it would give them an advantage to be the largest fry who can eat larger food etc, and that regular water changes when raising fry helps them grow evenly and quickly, partly because you're removing/diluting that hormone from the water.

is it the same process as you're referring to here? Do you know if it applies to all/most fish species, or where I could learn more perhaps?
Sorry to bombard you with questions, it's just really interesting, and I'd like to learn more

I've not got a source for it, its just something I've picked up over time but in a number of species its evident that stunting does not just happen because of the limits of the physical space, the fish are producing something that effects how they develop. Its one of the reasons regular water changes are a good thing other than removing nitrate, well fed fish in a tank changed regularly and in large quantities grow faster and healthier than those well fed in a tank that gets 10% every month for example. I term it as a hormone out of ignorance of what it actually is - it could equally be linked to the way they percieve their environment through the lateral line etc?

In contrast to what you say about the fry, some fish do it on purpose too. I had some loaches all the same age, same tank and only the alpha grew the rest stayed smaller and on reading up I found this is a common choice in beta fish (as in second in the chain not beta species).

Wills

 

[Wills]

Ah okay thats why. I was hoping everything would develop if it got into a nice clean tank. Is that possible or am I wasting my time?

I think it would be worth shopping around - especially for $100.

Wills

 

[indivicous]

I think it would be worth shopping around - especially for $100.

Wills

I'll ask them if they'll let me bring it back if it doesn't show any promise after I put it into a nice tank. Thanks all for your help

 

[indivicous]

Also I may actually be able to get some pictures of the red terror as well tonight, so I'll post them here if i do.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I've not got a source for it, its just something I've picked up over time but in a number of species its evident that stunting does not just happen because of the limits of the physical space, the fish are producing something that effects how they develop. Its one of the reasons regular water changes are a good thing other than removing nitrate, well fed fish in a tank changed regularly and in large quantities grow faster and healthier than those well fed in a tank that gets 10% every month for example. I term it as a hormone out of ignorance of what it actually is - it could equally be linked to the way they percieve their environment through the lateral line etc?

In contrast to what you say about the fry, some fish do it on purpose too. I had some loaches all the same age, same tank and only the alpha grew the rest stayed smaller and on reading up I found this is a common choice in beta fish (as in second in the chain not beta species).

Wills

That's awesome, thank you! Even without a source, or knowing exactly how it's happening, it's certainly evident from fish keeping community experience that they're doing something that affects their growth or the growth of others around them, and that regular water changes helps prevent stunting and uneven growth in batches of fry. There must be some lab research out there that tests for hormones, wonder whether @Byron has looked into this? Going to have a look on WWM now.

Sorry to take the thread kinda off topic, enjoy whichever fish you end up choosing OP, and please share more photos when you get him/her!

 

[HoldenOn]

Also I may actually be able to get some pictures of the red terror as well tonight, so I'll post them here if i do.

Nice.

 

[indivicous]

This is the red terror, he’s super white for some reason but that’s definitely because he’s in an insanely small tank, makes me feel really bad for him, almost enough to just get him