Fishless Cycling

[UncleHomer]

THANK YOU SOOO MUCH!

This worked awsome, things didnt seem to go exactly as mentioned here however everything worked out my aquarium perfectly cycled in about 2-3 weeks and my fish are loving it.

 

[scubadoo]

As some of you may have seen I've been having some problems with my tank following the completion of my fishless cycle and then adding fish.

To recap, I completed a fishless cycle using the add & wait method, and after 3 weeks the tank was processing 5ppm down to 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite in 10-12 hours.

At this stage I did a large water change (about 80% - yes the water was treated) and added my new fish - pretty much fully stocked, but remembering that all the fish are young and thin bodied, so not up to their full bio-load potential.

Following the big water change I dropped the temperature of the tank back from about 30degC to 25degC ready for the fish (this took about 2 hours I guess).

After acclimatising and adding the fish, I tested the water as a precautionary measure after a few hours, and whilst my ammonia was 0, my nitrite was at 5ppm.

I am currently desperately trying to get the nitrites under control with twice daily water changes of about 38%, but to date the effects of this are limited and too late for some of the fish. Many of the other fish (particularly the neons) are showing signs of distress.

Now the only real reason I can come up with for this is that the reduction in temperature caused a die back of the nitrite processing bacteria, and since they take longer to develop than the ammonia eaters I currently have a dangerously high nitrite spike.

Others may be able to come up with a more plausible reason for the problem, but I would advocate that anybody currently doing a fishless cycle slowly drop the temperature in their tank over a few days (whilst still adding the ammonia) to get to their eventual stocking temp. after they think they have succesfully completed the cycle.

for those who are intersted, the problems are better documented in this thread:

scubadoo's nitrite emergency thread

 

[rdd1952]

The temperature reduction shouldn't have any effect on the bacteria. The only way you experience any significant bcteria die-off is if you let the filter dry out or you go an extended period of time ithout a food source (ammonia). I basically cycled all my tanks the same way, removed the water, lowered the temperature from the upper 80s to 78F, refilled with water and added fish. I don't know where your nitrite came from if you had just done the water change. Have you tested your tap water to make sure it isn't coming from the tap? You can get the nitrite down by doing daily water changes. Just change about 25% to 30% water changes daily.

 

[scubadoo]

Thanks for that rdd.

If the temperature change did't have an effect, then it can only be that the filter was off for about 30-40 minutes while I did the big water change and took the opportunity to plant 3 more plants in the substarte whilst the water level was so low.

The filter is a Juwel internal filter, so it had to go off once the water level started dropping, and I assumed that the sponges would be ok to remain in the housing while I did the water change.

I guess that if I ever need to do a big water change like that again, Ill take the sponges out and leave them in a bucket of old tank water next time.

As i stated above I've been doing twice daily water changes of about 38% each time to reduce the levels, and by this morning my nitrite reading was down to 0.25 so it looks as though I'm through the worst of it.

the bacterial colony seems to have recoved quite quickly, but I've a good few stressed fish which will need some TLC over the coming days/weeks.

 

[rdd1952]

Actually, the filter being off for that long shouldn't be a factor either. I have forgotten after a water change before and left mine off overnight for over 8 hours with no effect at all. Also have had several power outages for 3 hours or more without problems. As long as the media doesn't dry out, the filter could probably be off for a day or more without problems. I'm not really sure what may have happened but I don't think the temperature or the filter was the problem.

 

[Lord Zogat]

Tank cycling update. I am cycling two bridged tanks, total of about 33Gallons.

Its now around 1 ppm from the original 6ppm. I am now into week #4 I started with no bacteria or borrowed media. The temp has been set to 88 - 90 degrees the whole time. There has been very little light on the tank.

There is not yet any algae as far as I can tell. The larger of the two bridged tanks was cloudy for the first few days and has always been a touch more so then the 10 gallon tank. I account this to the fact that the 10 gallon has its own filter and the intake of the 20 gallon tank is in the 10 gallon. So water passes through the bridge and may not have as strong of a tank current operating as the 10 gallon does.

Yesterday I had to yank the rusting slate out of the tanks and replaced it with a plastic counter part.

I knew not to get rammy from reading other posts, as every tank appears to cycle differently. I've just tried to forget about it until its ready.

Hopefully when I hit 0ppm for the first time, the next batch set to 4ppm will disappear quicker. Instead of using an eyedropper, I used a syringe and added 18cc of ammonia to the large tank and 9cc to the other tank. This made it appear to be about 6 ppm, but because the color chart jumps from 8 - 4ppm, it could have been 7 or more.

 

[Egmel]

Instead of using an eyedropper, I used a syringe and added 18cc of ammonia to the large tank and 9cc to the other tank. This made it appear to be about 6 ppm, but because the color chart jumps from 8 - 4ppm, it could have been 7 or more.

I use measuring spoons to measure the right amount of ammonia, and boy does that stuff stink! I also have the difficulty that the kit jumps between 4ppm and 8ppm. I go on the basis that as long as it's more than 4 and less than 8 it should be in the right ball park!

 

[nogsnellin]

Well I am about to give up on this fishless cycling lark! Its now 5 weeks since I started and I am stuck on zero nitrites but always between 1-5 ammonia. I can't ever seem to get rid of all my ammonia. My nitrites reached a high of 5 on 10/8 but have been on 0 since 18/8.
Instead of waiting for my nitrites to disappear its the ammonia thats slow to go!
The weird thing is that my nitrates have slowly risen to about 60 from a tap water reading of 4.
I just don't know whats happening and am getting very fed up at looking at an empty tank, not to mention the ridicule of my wife and badgering of my children to get some fish!
I am considering doing a complete water change and getting a couple of the 'hardy' fish. At least we will all have something to look at!!

 

[rdd1952]

If your nitrates are rising, then your tankis cycling. Otherwise, the nitrates would stay at 4. I don't know why your ammonia isn't going all the way back to 0 but it sounds like there is enough bacteria to process the nitrite created which is why it stays at 0.

I would say to go ahead and do the water change and add a few fish (how large is your tank, I can't remember) and just keep a check on he ammonia and nitrite every day. If you don't see a rise, then you are good to go.

 

[nogsnellin]

Thanks rdd. I will keep you posted. I did wonder if I already had plenty of nitrite eating bacteria, just not enough ammonia eaters.
My tank is 54 litres thats about 12 uk galls i think.

 

[Lord Zogat]

Well its been almost a month now and my tank has still not gone below the 1 ppm since starting it at around 6 ppm. What would kill the bacterian necessary to process the ammonia short of leaving ammonia levels at 0 ppm or drying out the filter media?

Does PH effect them? My PH is at 8.0 and has increased to that over the month, I assumed it was from the slate I had to remove that was rusting. Do I need to lower the PH for the bacteria, or only when the fish come in.

 

[rdd1952]

There are a couple things that can be a problem. The most obvious is chlorine. If you're using a dechlorinator that shouldn't be a problem though. The possible exception to that though would be a dechlorator or additive that say it "removes" ammonia. The additive could be breaking the ammonia down before it can be processed into nitrite.

It could also be something that's in the tank. The slate could have had something on it (did you clean and boil it good before putting it in the tank) that was/is killing the bacteria.

 

[Lord Zogat]

There are a couple things that can be a problem. The most obvous is chlorine. If you're using a dechlorinator that shouldn't be a problem though. The possible exception to tht though would be a dechlorator or additive that say it "removes" ammonia. The additive could be breaking the ammonia down before it can be processed into nitrite.

It could also be something that's in the tank. The slate could have had something on it (did you clean and boil it good before putting it in the tank) that was/is killing the bacteria.

Yup slate has been boiled fro over 20 min before it went in. The declorinator I am using is called Stress Coat, with the healing power of Aloe Vera. Its says to remove chlorine and Neutralize Chloramines. Then it says Using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals AMMO-LOCK 2 will instantly detoxify poisonous ammonia.

This to me sounds like they reccomend a product to help control ammonia, not that their product actually does that. Infact it can't since my ammonia levels never dropped rapidly when adding this each time to replacement water. Unless I am not letting the dechlorinator sit in the new water long enough before adding it to the tank to top up the levels.

Should I have light on the tank for certain periods of the day, the tanks never see any real light except light filtered through a blind from a window 6 feet away. I just haven't mounted one yet over both bridged tanks.

Maybe I am just getting impatient?

 

[rdd1952]

I think I see your problem. Most products that detoxify ammonia, such as Ammo-loc, change ammonia (toxic) into ammonium (non-toxic). The problem though is that ammonium will still give you a positive reading on your ammonia test kit. Did you ever have a nitrite reading at all? If it rose and dropped, you probably are cycled. I would stop using the Ammo-loc. Once a tank is cycled, it is unnecessary and an added cost.

As for the dechlorinator, it works instantly. As soon as it goes in the water, the chlorine is gone so how long you let it set is irrelevent. Actually, if you let your water sit for 24 hours,the chlorine will disspate anyway (chloramines won't and will have to be removed with dechlorinator).

Lighting isn't necessary during cycling unless you have plants which need it.

 

[Cheffi]

There are a couple things that can be a problem. The most obvous is chlorine. If you're using a dechlorinator that shouldn't be a problem though. The possible exception to tht though would be a dechlorator or additive that say it "removes" ammonia. The additive could be breaking the ammonia down before it can be processed into nitrite.

It could also be something that's in the tank. The slate could have had something on it (did you clean and boil it good before putting it in the tank) that was/is killing the bacteria.

Yup slate has been boiled fro over 20 min before it went in. The declorinator I am using is called Stress Coat, with the healing power of Aloe Vera. Its says to remove chlorine and Neutralize Chloramines. Then it says Using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals AMMO-LOCK 2 will instantly detoxify poisonous ammonia.

This to me sounds like they reccomend a product to help control ammonia, not that their product actually does that. Infact it can't since my ammonia levels never dropped rapidly when adding this each time to replacement water. Unless I am not letting the dechlorinator sit in the new water long enough before adding it to the tank to top up the levels.

Should I have light on the tank for certain periods of the day, the tanks never see any real light except light filtered through a blind from a window 6 feet away. I just haven't mounted one yet over both bridged tanks.

Maybe I am just getting impatient?

I have been following this thread and just wondered if you are doing a fishless cycle why you having been changing water and dechlorinating? Sorry if I have missed something.