Fishless Cycling - Stalling, Plants To Blame?

[Jonno]

My ammonia dropped in 9 days, today is 19 days later so it should have gone by now surely?

I'm having to do a 20 litre (2 bucket) water change every day to stop the ph hitting 6 and stalling the cycle too

Any idea as to what is wrong? The only thig i can think of is that i have a few bunches of plants in the tank that i ordered online that arrived a bit earlier than expected. Will these be lowering my PH? Infact... come to think of it i have been testing the PH when i get back from work when the tank lights have been off all day?

 

[lee158]

Hi jonno,

Is your Ph rising?

In the past my cycle stalled due to too much ammonia which lowered the ph. I would test your ammonia and make sure it is not over 6ppm - if it's off the chart i would do a 50% water change then topup the tank with conditioned water then test after an hour.


I'm not sure about the plants - to my knowledge they are useful for nitrate consumption however they have waste just like any other living thing and i think they produce ammonia so they could be pushing your ammonia up.

Lee

 

[Jonno]

no my ammonia is fine - i add it after my water change and it has gone within 12 hours. If i add another load to top it up, i check it in 12 hours again and it seems to be stuck on 1ppm as if it cannot process any more? At this point i check PH and it is lowish at around 6.x, so i do a water change and then it starts over again...

the only thing i can think of is the plants are causing the ph to drop thus stalling the process?

 

[Underwurlde]

Plants will readily take up ammonia, nitrite & nitrate. Ammonia is preferred to nitrite.

Only when a plant dies and then rots does ammonia get released!

Andy

 

[Jonno]

Plants will readily take up ammonia, nitrite & nitrate. Ammonia is preferred to nitrite.

Only when a plant dies and then rots does ammonia get released!

Andy

hmm but it cant be the plants using up the ammonia as it stops at ph 6? surely if the plants were eating it it wouldn't effect the ph?

i might take the plants out tonight and put them in a bucket.

 

[Dave Spencer]

First off, isn`t ammonia basic, meaning that it raises pH?

Healthy plants do not give off ammonia, but they do use it as their first choice source of nitrogen. Plants expend less energy converting ammonia for N than they do by using nitrates.

Healthy plants are more efficient at removing ammonia from the water column than your filter bacteria, and they do not produce nitrite as a by product. People who run heavily planted tanks have filters with bacteria colonies smaller than those without, due to the efficiency of plants in using ammonia. I have three tanks full of plants, and their effect on pH is minimal as far as I can tell. All three of my tanks have a pH around 6.

It is difficult to tell what your plant biomass is, and how much ammonia and nitrate they are converting, but removing the plants will not solve your problem. Do you have bogwood in your tank?

Remember, as well, that most test kits are not particularly accurate.

Dave.

 

[Jonno]

No bogwood (yet).

Testing kit works 100% as my other tank tests fine

 

[ShoC]

Dave is there a level of high ph that stops the cycle process?
and did you say ammonia raises ph?

 

[Jonno]

yawn... got in and same results... nitrite test still dark dark purple.

is it normal for it not to even drop in the slightest?

i'm getting increasingly cheesed off

 

[tetraqueen]

I know the feeling and you will hate me but it will change and when it does it will be worth it.

Have you decided what you having when your tank finally passes the cycle stage.

Take this time to browse and look at different set ups.

Research your fish that you are to have and ensure there is nothing you have missed.

Once its clear I can see the smile and relief will be worth it.

For the fish take time and patience those that have that make the best fish keepers.

Good Luck

 

[Jonno]

thanks tetra!

i've changed my biorb filter early to seed my new tank with the mature filter, hopefully it helps

just hope too many snail eggs havent got through!

 

[tetraqueen]

yes that should speed things up hopefully.

 

[rdd1952]

Dave is there a level of high ph that stops the cycle process?

If pH goes into the 8s it may slow just as it does when it drops into the lower 6s or below. From what I have read, optimal pH range for bacteria reproduction is between 7.0 & 8.0. What is your tap pH? If it's near 7, I would suggest a full water change or at least 80% to get the pH back up near 7 and also lower the nitrite. It will still cycle but will reduce the amount of bacteria needed to get rid of 10 to 20 ppm (you will never need that much nitrite bacteria). Also, what is your nitrate reading? Is there any nitrite being processed yet?

 

[Jonno]

If pH goes into the 8s it may slow just as it does when it drops into the lower 6s or below. From what I have read, optimal pH range for bacteria reproduction is between 7.0 & 8.0. What is your tap pH? If it's near 7, I would suggest a full water change or at least 80% to get the pH back up near 7 and also lower the nitrite. It will still cycle but will reduce the amount of bacteria needed to get rid of 10 to 20 ppm (you will never need that much nitrite bacteria). Also, what is your nitrate reading? Is there any nitrite being processed yet?

My nitrates have have been consistently high (100+ easily, cant tell how much by) for about 2 weeks now, which confuses me, as the bacteria are there but i read that they reproduce very quickly, which mine obviously aren't! My tapwater is 15ppm nitrate.

PH is currently 7.4.

Still no drop in nitrite at all.

 

[rdd1952]

Nitrifying bacteria reproduce very slowly compared to most bacteria. It takes between 6 and 30 hours for nitrifying bacteria to double once (depending on the tank conditions) where as most bacteria can double in a matter of seconds to an hour. And the bacteria that process nitrite are the slowest to develop. I think that if you do a major water change, 75 to 90 percent and then raise the ammonia back up to 4 ppm, you will see the ammonia and nitrite drop in less than a day. The problem you have is the same one we all encoounter. The nitrite just keep climbing because we are adding it (in the form of ammonia that is being processed) faster than the bacteria can double. Most likly you have plenty of bacteria to process 4 ppm of nitrite a day (you have very high nitrate so nitrite is definitely being processed) but you probably have 40 ppm in your tank The water change should sort that all out.