Yay nitrites! Now comes the long wait... all that ammonia will disappear soon and the nitrites should skyrocket. Nitrites seem to take forever to drop, but once the ammonia is low remember you have to keep feeding the tank ammonia, add half the dose that got you to 5ppm daily until the nitrites finally drop.
Fishless Cycling Help
- Thread starter jaywings19
- Start date
leanne
Fish Crazy
I Think you have you nits confused...
The conversion is from ammonia to nitrIte to nitrAte not the other way round.
So you would get an initial high ammonia spike. If you are testing for nitrates these will stay low for a while. You would get a nitrIte spike before a nitrAte spike.
So basically what has happened is:
- your ammonia has been converted to nitrite (which you haven't monitored because it looks like you have been testing for nitrate)
- your nitrIte levels have peaked (again no register)
- your nitrAte levels have started to rise (and nitrItes to fall)
Basically you have done you nitrite and nitrate testing backwards. This isn't a problem as you have done a fishless cycle but if you had had fish in there they probably wouldn't have survived.
PS I'm a biochemist...
The conversion is from ammonia to nitrIte to nitrAte not the other way round.
So you would get an initial high ammonia spike. If you are testing for nitrates these will stay low for a while. You would get a nitrIte spike before a nitrAte spike.
So basically what has happened is:
- your ammonia has been converted to nitrite (which you haven't monitored because it looks like you have been testing for nitrate)
- your nitrIte levels have peaked (again no register)
- your nitrAte levels have started to rise (and nitrItes to fall)
Basically you have done you nitrite and nitrate testing backwards. This isn't a problem as you have done a fishless cycle but if you had had fish in there they probably wouldn't have survived.
PS I'm a biochemist...
jaywings19
Fish Crazy
I didn't get them confused. I used some established filter media from my existing tank. That's why my NitrAtes showed up first. I didn't get the NitrIte reading until today because there wasn't enough Ammonia in the tank to cause a spike.leanne said:
I've been testing all 3 from the start. The NitrAtes showed up right from the beginning... then the NitrItes first started to go up today (day 13).
leanne
Fish Crazy
You didn't say that you had been testing them all from the start. The way you have explained things didn't make much sense to me as it was only 2 thirds of the story.
I would always recommend testing for nitrItes from the start - especially as you already have some bacteria. If your nitrite levels get too high then they inhibit the nitrite converting bacteria - thus it takes ages to get your nitrates to rise. Maybe that was why your nitrate levels started to rise after your water change - the bacteria weren't inhibited any more as the (possible) high nitrite levels were stopping them multiplying.
I would always recommend testing for nitrItes from the start - especially as you already have some bacteria. If your nitrite levels get too high then they inhibit the nitrite converting bacteria - thus it takes ages to get your nitrates to rise. Maybe that was why your nitrate levels started to rise after your water change - the bacteria weren't inhibited any more as the (possible) high nitrite levels were stopping them multiplying.
leanne
Fish Crazy
One way of looking at it to see if your tank could cope with the fish waste is to calculate it backwards. How much ammonia do you add to get a, say, 20 rise in nitrate. Then compare this with how quickly your nitrates rise in your other tank at the moment. If your nitrates in your tank rise less than the nitrates in you cycle then your new tank could easily support your stock. It is the degree in conversion to nitrates that shows you how mature your tank is. You are getting quite a lot of nitrates so this indicates your tank is quite "mature". If you were to get your ammonia and nitrite levels down by water changes I recon you could start stocking your tank slowly.
WAIT IT ALL MAKES SENSE!!!
Right here goes -
You have a new tank and add bacteria from your old tank and then feed your tank with ammonia. The reason you are not getting a spike in nitrites is because your bacteria are converting to nitrite and nitrate it as quickly as you can add it. You are only just getting a rise in nitrites now as you are only just overloading the converting potential of the bacteria.
Unless you overload the bioload you wont get a rise in nitrites - the ammonia gets converted to nitrite by one type of bacteria and then as this happens another type of bacteria converts it to nitrate. Thus unless you add more than they can cope with you will never get a rise in nitrites.
Your tank will easily cope with a few fish and instead of using ammonia from a bottle, use ammonia from the fish waste as you increase your stocking.
End of rant.
get those ammonia and nitrite levels down and start adding some fish!
WAIT IT ALL MAKES SENSE!!!
Right here goes -
You have a new tank and add bacteria from your old tank and then feed your tank with ammonia. The reason you are not getting a spike in nitrites is because your bacteria are converting to nitrite and nitrate it as quickly as you can add it. You are only just getting a rise in nitrites now as you are only just overloading the converting potential of the bacteria.
Unless you overload the bioload you wont get a rise in nitrites - the ammonia gets converted to nitrite by one type of bacteria and then as this happens another type of bacteria converts it to nitrate. Thus unless you add more than they can cope with you will never get a rise in nitrites.
Your tank will easily cope with a few fish and instead of using ammonia from a bottle, use ammonia from the fish waste as you increase your stocking.
End of rant.
get those ammonia and nitrite levels down and start adding some fish!
jaywings19
Fish Crazy
Leanne - Thanks for the info (aka rant) 
Seriously, I think we're on the same page... and always were. I've been trying to cause the NitrIte spike because I was under the impression that fishless cycling is done in order to get a full healthy colony of beneficial bacteria... not just enough to handle a few fish.
As for this comment: "get those ammonia and nitrite levels down and start adding some fish!"
Believe me... I'm trying! I am not going to add any more Ammonia until I see that level start dropping into the readable zone on my test kit chart. Then I will add a cut-back dosage each day until the Ammonia and NitrIte both go down to zero. I'm trying to do this right because I plan on getting Discus, which I know are very sensitive to their water conditions.
Seriously, I think we're on the same page... and always were. I've been trying to cause the NitrIte spike because I was under the impression that fishless cycling is done in order to get a full healthy colony of beneficial bacteria... not just enough to handle a few fish.As for this comment: "get those ammonia and nitrite levels down and start adding some fish!"
Believe me... I'm trying!
I am not going to add any more Ammonia until I see that level start dropping into the readable zone on my test kit chart. Then I will add a cut-back dosage each day until the Ammonia and NitrIte both go down to zero. I'm trying to do this right because I plan on getting Discus, which I know are very sensitive to their water conditions.jaywings19
Fish Crazy
Well, Day 14 is looking good (knock on wood). My NitrIte went up from 0.25ppm to 2.0ppm overnight. Ammonia is still off the charts.
I am going to refrain from adding Ammonia until the level comes down into my test kit range.
PLEASE keep your fingers (and toes) crossed for me on this cycle! I would be crushed if something went wacky and had to start again.
I am going to refrain from adding Ammonia until the level comes down into my test kit range.
PLEASE keep your fingers (and toes) crossed for me on this cycle! I would be crushed if something went wacky and had to start again.
Yep, just be patient and let it happen, it's looking good. 
Be prepared for the long nitrite spike, you'll need something to occupy you. I just completed my 3rd successful fishless cycle with ammonia and while it certainly tries your patience, it is worth it in the end when you can stock the fish you want without having to expose them to toxic concentrations of ammonia and nitrite. I amused myself by adding even more plants and rearranging my aquascape.
Be prepared for the long nitrite spike, you'll need something to occupy you. I just completed my 3rd successful fishless cycle with ammonia and while it certainly tries your patience, it is worth it in the end when you can stock the fish you want without having to expose them to toxic concentrations of ammonia and nitrite. I amused myself by adding even more plants and rearranging my aquascape.jaywings19
Fish Crazy
Still progressing here... NitrIte went up from 2ppm to 3ppm since yesterday... Ammonia still remains constant at 10ppm (estimated).
I'm guessing that the Ammonia has dropped some... but not enough to make it fall back within my test kit's readable range.
Should I still hold off adding Ammonia until it falls back within my test kit range? Or just start adding 1/2 dosages now?
I'm guessing that the Ammonia has dropped some... but not enough to make it fall back within my test kit's readable range.
Should I still hold off adding Ammonia until it falls back within my test kit range? Or just start adding 1/2 dosages now?
leanne
Fish Crazy
I'd wait till it get readable as because as it stands you don't kow at what rate it is converting - conversion increases exponentially as your bacterial colonies get larger. When it is readable again add half doses to see what happens - if it "swallows" them then increase your dosage.
tstenback
Hopelessly Addicted
Agreed. Hold off until you get a readable level. glad to see things are going better. You have to be one of the most patient people on the planet. Either that or you have a great outlet for frustration 
bartender_in_ny
Fish Fanatic
i just cycled a 55 gallon tank with 5 white clouds + 6 zebra dianios, it took 28 days for my amionia to read clear + i even added a few platies 2.5 wks out..see sig... i never check nitrate or nitrite dont even own a test kit..I DIDNT LOSE ONE FISH!!!!! honest to god!!!! dont make this so complicated...honestly i was like that when i started, let nature run its coarse....and both my tanks i never did a water chg till the 1st 6 wks out...then i did a 25% then every 4 wks, i never lose fish and their crystal clear......
oh well thats my 2 cents ...but seems like a long time and alotta work this fishless cycling....lol
i dont disagree with the gang who likes to fishless cycle, all im saying is it sounds like your making too complicated, it isnt............no offence
oh well thats my 2 cents ...but seems like a long time and alotta work this fishless cycling....lol
i dont disagree with the gang who likes to fishless cycle, all im saying is it sounds like your making too complicated, it isnt............no offence
jaywings19
Fish Crazy
After the first 6 weeks I got used to it!tstenback said:You have to be one of the most patient people on the planet. Either that or you have a great outlet for frustration
I'm happy with just seeing cycle progress. The first 10-12 days I was really impatient and frustrated not seeing any readings change.
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