Fishless Cycling... Confusion

[fishfoo]

Hello,
I am new to this hobby and have been doing a great deal of research in preparation. I can tell you that it is no easy task because I am constantly faced with contradictory advice. I am almost ready to set up my new tank and have decided I want to do a fish-less cycle. I have read on the internet that in order to do this process I must add amounts of ammonia until the nitrite levels are 0 which can take up to 4 weeks. I then went into two local aquatic centres to get this confirmed. Both told me that adding ammonia is not necessary and all I need to do is set up the tank with live plants, rocks, ornaments etc, add the product that encourages bacteria growth in the filter, turn everything on and wait a few days. Following this I should take a sample of the water for testing to see if it's ready for fish. I am now confused. What is the correct process? I also have a product called Tetra Safe Start, should I use this?

I want to do this properly and humanely and will be striving to keep all my fish alive and happy so I am not in any rush to get the fish in the tank.

TIA

 

[Aqua Tom]

Welcome to the forum.

Well done for not jumping straight in with buying fish. Your LFS's told you Ammonia was not required because (a) they probably are a bit ignorant about fishless cycling or more likely (b) they want to sell you lots of fish.

Click on the link in my signature below to Begineers Resource Centre. Then read up on the nitrogen cycle, what is cycling, fishless cycling & fish-in cycling.

Once you have done this & reached a decision as to what you want to do then please come back & talk to us.

This is the most supportive & informative fishkeeping site on the net & we are all happy to help in any way we can.


Tom.

 

[Warehouse]

Hello Fishfoo,

The fish shop are giving you bad advice, plain and simple. How can a tank be ready to go in 1 week when it takes a good 2 weeks for the Ammonia eating bacteria to begin to grow, then 3 to 4 weeks for the Nitrite eaters to show up? Ignore them.

Don't add anything to the tank apart from the gravel or sand substrate, the heater and filter, (plus de-chlorinated water of course). Turn the lot on for 24 hours before doing anything, then read up here on the fishless cycle. Here are the best 2 guides: One by RDD 1952 and one by Gvilleguy. Both are excellent starting points.

After that you just need to source some ammonia.


Just saw that Tom beat me to it

 

[fishfoo]

Thank you both for the clarification. I will proceed with the fish-less cycle once I have purchased the ammonia etc. I am also looking at the two guides you recommended Warehouse. Thanks

 

[Wend]

Hi. Ive also been benefiting from the advice here over the last week and I have also had contradictory advice (hence two dead bodies in my 3 day old tank!). Just today I phoned my pet shop to see if they stock API test kits, when I explained why - and explained about the fatalities - they still want to give me the same advice - ie pop in some water condition or whatever and off you go.

Annoying innit.

 

[Warehouse]

Hi. Ive also been benefiting from the advice here over the last week and I have also had contradictory advice (hence two dead bodies in my 3 day old tank!). Just today I phoned my pet shop to see if they stock API test kits, when I explained why - and explained about the fatalities - they still want to give me the same advice - ie pop in some water condition or whatever and off you go.

Annoying innit.

If they told you to go away and cycle for 6 to 8 weeks it would be no good for their business. Imagine it, healthy fish that don't need replacing .

 

[fishfoo]

Yes, very. It's a shame they don't value the lives of fish. Even my husband used the words 'just stick a goldfish in there first'. I have now ordered all the necessary equipment. I am just trying to get my head around the exact process as my brain takes a while to compute

 

[Lolly123]

Yes, very. It's a shame they don't value the lives of fish. Even my husband used the words 'just stick a goldfish in there first'. I have now ordered all the necessary equipment. I am just trying to get my head around the exact process as my brain takes a while to compute

It is surprising the sheer ignorance of some of the fish stores and their staff, as all the others have said don't listen to them, they'll most likely empty your wallet and make your entry into fish keeping a stressful experience. I'm glad you've got the sense to question such advice and it looks as if you are one of the few that will have a better introductory to this hobby, so thumbs up for taking the time to research

It does seem daunting when you first start out, but ask as many questions as you like and i'm sure someone will be happy to answer. When your cycle is completed its a nice achievement and everything seems worth the wait when you are ready to buy fish.

Good luck!

 

[waterdrop]

Completely agree with the others. You have stumbled on the right place. Our little beginners section is a wonderful place to get week by week guidence from a group of fun people and to be working on and learning various topics by reading other people's threads and asking your own questions during the weeks this is all going. Learning a number of basics of the hobby is much more valuable than simply getting your first tank started - the skills can last and grow the whole time you are in the hobby. Cycling (the creation of a biofilter,) gravel-clean-water-changing, filter maintenance and stocking plans are all important basic skills that can be learned in wrong ways or right ways.

In addition to the RDD and GVG articles mentioned above, I find that it is also important to read The Nitrogen Cycle and The Fish-In Cycle to help round out your beginning material so that your questions will be deeper. There are also some good startup articles by Miss Wiggle and Alien Anna and other good things in the Beginners Resource Center of course. But none of that can substitute for learning to keep an aquarium notebook and keeping a cycling log and sharing it along with frequent discussion with the members. There are lots of little tweeks we've added over the years.

Freshwater aquarium filters have three main functions: Mechanical Filtration, Chemical Filtration and Biological Filtration. The mechanical function is the one that people usually already have a natural sense for, the trapping of particles, large and small. The chemical function is really optional and is chosen in special cases with special media picked for a short-term purpose. For instance, carbon (aka activated charcoal) is used to remove medications, yellow wood tannins and the occasional organic odor of unknown origin. It is best kept on the shelf otherwise. Zeolite is used in some advanced approaches to further remove ammonia but is best not used by beginners.

It is really biological filtration that is the core magic of the hobby. Without the two specific species of autotrophic bacteria we encourage to grow on our biomedia, we would be left changing water daily to try and approach the pristine types of water that nature can provide in streams, rivers and other freshwater bodies. Biomedia is chosen for its ability to provide just the right sort of growing surface that these bacteria like and to provide lots and lots of that surface area. It is also chosen for its ability to last for years and years and for its additional ability to serve also as mechanical media. There is often overlap of function, especially between biological and mechanical, but also chemical media.

The process of getting these two species of bacteria to grow can seem pretty arcane to a newcomer, but patience is the largest ingredient. They are just very, very slow growers and really test the patience level most of us are used to in the modern world. Unless one lucks in to a mature media donation from someone else (kind of like a sourdough yeast starter can be for bakers) the minimum time is really a month and 70 days is quite common for a standard fishless cycle, though the overall times vary wildly.

You will find that there are three phases to fishless cycling. First, the period before the nitrite spike when you are simply waiting for ammonia to start dropping from 4-5ppm down to zero ppm on a regular basis. Then, the period of the nitrite spike, when nitrite(NO2) is "off the charts," meaning as high as the test can show. This can last quite a long time. Then the third phase, after the nitrite spike is over, can also be quite long as you wait for the two colonies to both become large enough to process 4-5ppm of ammonia down to zero ppm within only 12 hours of when ammonia was dosed.

Finally, after this third goal has been reached, one performs a "qualifying week" watching the new biofilter perform its double-zero 12 hour feat for 7 days or so. By this time the initial part of one's fish stocking plan should be ready to be put in to action and start the permanent running of the tank.

Hope this little read helps a bit and that you can glance back at it later and find some truth to it.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[fishfoo]

Thank you Lolly and Waterdrop. It is certainly a great learning experience. I am now actually excited about the prospect of the fish-less cycle. I'm going for the 'Add and Wait' Method. I am going to start running the tank tomorrow, but wait a few days before I commence Operation: Cycle.

Just a couple of quick questions:
I presume I must use dechlorinated water from the moment I put the water in the tank even though there won't be fish in it for a long time?
Also, can I put live plants in the tank whilst I go through the fish-less cycle?

Thanks again

 

[Skins]

Yes, always dechlorinate your tap water. Chlorine in your tap water supply will kill the beneficial bacterias you want to colonise in your filters media. I would be inclined to add your plants after you have finished cycling.

Keep us all posted when you start to cycle, Keith.