Fishless Cycle

[without_reason]

I have started my fishless cycle on the 7th of this month, and a few days ago nitrite has dropped to 0, but ammonia isn't shifting as fast as it used to - also now it is always showing 0 nitrite. I'm really confused, have I done something wrong which has prompted it to start over?
Here is my cycle log:

Water parameters
PH: 7.4/7.6
Nitrate: 5.0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Ammonia: 0ppm

Day 1 added 2ml ammonia (07/10/2009))
Ammonia: 4ppm (10:30)
Day 2
Ammonia: 4ppm (10:30)
Day 3
Ammonia: 4ppm (11:30)
Day 4
Ammonia: 4ppm (17:00)
Day 5:
Ammonia: 2ppm, Nitrite: 0ppm (14:00)
Day 6:
Ammonia: 0.5ppm (added 2.1ml ammonia- 8:00), nitrite: 0.25
Day 7:
Ammonia: 1ppm, nitrite: 1ppm (15:00)
Day 8:
Ammonia: 0ppm, nitrite: 1ppm (added 2ml ammonia- 15:00)
Day 9:
Ammonia: 1ppm, nitrite: 1ppm (11.30) Added 2ml ammonia, 22:00
Day 10:
Ammonia: 1ppm, nitrite: 1ppm (11.30) Added 2ml ammonia, 22:00
Day 11:
Ammonia: 2ppm, nitrite: 5ppm
Day 12:
Ammonia: 0ppm, nitrite: 1ppm (added 2ml ammonia, 17:00)
Day 13:
Ammonia: 2ppm, nitrite: 1ppm
Day 14:
Ammonia: 1ppm, nitrite: 0.25ppm
Day 15:
Ammonia: 1ppm, nitrite: 0ppm
Day 16:
AM: Ammonia: 1ppm, nitrite: 0ppm (added 0.6ml ammonia)
PM: Ammonia: 4ppm, nitrite: 0ppm
Day 17:
AM: Ammonia: 4ppm, nitrite: 0ppm, nitrate: 80ppm.

 

[OldMan47]

When I look at your log I see a nice rise in nitrite production followed by a slowing of ammonia processing and a final high reading for nitrates. You started with a decent pH but has it dropped on you? That could cause the bacterial growth to slow down quite a bit.

 

[without_reason]

When I look at your log I see a nice rise in nitrite production followed by a slowing of ammonia processing and a final high reading for nitrates. You started with a decent pH but has it dropped on you? That could cause the bacterial growth to slow down quite a bit.

Hello,
Just tested my pH and I think it looks closest to 7.4 on the high range pH test. On the normal pH kit, it doesn't look like any colour.. it hasn't gone blue at all like it did last time I will check it again and see what colour it goes..

Checked again and it is the same colour.. a kind of dull yellow/brown. I guess looks closest to pH 6 on the chart, but definately got a browny tinge to it.

 

[without_reason]

Just did a test on my tap water and it turned to a pH of 7.2 on the normal pH test so definately nothing wrong with the test - has my pH dropped lower than 6?

If it has, why does it look like 7.4 on the high range pH test? - would it still show like this if it's low? or is it because 7.4 isn't on the normal pH test?

I really hope I wont have to start again

 

[without_reason]

I've just done a big water change and my pH is now 7.2
Thank you for your help OldMan47. I didn't even know the pH could just drop like that. I am now going to check my pH every other day to make sure there is no drop.

 

[OldMan47]

I've just done a big water change and my pH is now 7.2
Thank you for your help OldMan47. I didn't even know the pH could just drop like that. I am now going to check my pH every other day to make sure there is no drop.

It sounds like you may have some low KH water there. With that situation the build up of nitrates, some of which exist as nitric acid, will make the pH drop pretty quickly. That is why I asked about the pH when I saw the apparent stall and high nitrates. At about 6.2 pH, the cycle will almost stop completely.

 

[without_reason]

I've just done a big water change and my pH is now 7.2
Thank you for your help OldMan47. I didn't even know the pH could just drop like that. I am now going to check my pH every other day to make sure there is no drop.

It sounds like you may have some low KH water there. With that situation the build up of nitrates, some of which exist as nitric acid, will make the pH drop pretty quickly. That is why I asked about the pH when I saw the apparent stall and high nitrates. At about 6.2 pH, the cycle will almost stop completely.

Oh right. Can I ask what a low kH is? Is it the water hardness? and if so, does it mean soft or hard water? I tried to do a little search but didn't really understand

Also, will my cycle continue on now? Or is it starting from the beginning?

Thank you

 

[waterdrop]

Your fishless cycle will be just fine. The fact that your pH has dropped to 6.2 or below and the cycle has "stalled" just means that you'll need to do a big water change to get the pH back up in the range that our two bacterial species like to grow in.

When fishless cycling there's no worry about a shock to any fish, so the best water change is one that's as big as you can make it be but that's convenient for you. So if you have plants then would bend over too much or if you've got a nice long intake tube and would like to just keep your external cannister filter running (if that's the type you've got) then you can gravel-clean-water-remove right down to the substrate! Note that its always a good idea, even in a fishless cycle, to use your gravel cleaning siphon device and clean the gravel as the water is going out as this will potentially remove more of the nitrites and nitrates than otherwise sometimes (and their presence is yet another thing that can slow the growth a bit.)

When you refill with tap water, you need to "condition" with a product that removes chlorine/chloramine and in a new fishless cycling tank its a good idea to do that at 1.5x to 2x whatever the bottle tells you (but not more than 2x the dose.) This is because your bacterial colonies are very young and fragile and the water company might have overdosed the chlorine/chloramine a bit. Dose these amounts based on your bucket size OR if you decide to hose into the tank directly then dose for the full tank volume. The other thing you need to do with the return water is to roughly temperature match (your hand is good enough) so that the bacterial growth won't pause from the cold.

Then after you get the water all filled back up be sure to recharge your ammonia back up to 5ppm and test an hour or so later to verify that. The response to a water change most likely will not be an immediate return to quick drops of ammonia, but don't worry, if you've successfully raised the pH back up close to the tap level the bacteria should begin getting active again in the next day or two.

If you observe the pH -AGAIN- rapidly dropping then we'll have to consider more drastic measures than just a water change and we (me or some other member) can talk about that when it happens.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. KH is short for the german words for Carbonate Hardness, a measure of one of the two major groupings of minerals in the water that make up the overall "hardness." KH can be used as a more sensitive and a leading indicator of when pH is likely to drop, allowing you to act prior to the bacterial growth slowing down. But again, let's give it a week or so before spending more money on more test kits.

 

[without_reason]

Your fishless cycle will be just fine. The fact that your pH has dropped to 6.2 or below and the cycle has "stalled" just means that you'll need to do a big water change to get the pH back up in the range that our two bacterial species like to grow in.

When fishless cycling there's no worry about a shock to any fish, so the best water change is one that's as big as you can make it be but that's convenient for you. So if you have plants then would bend over too much or if you've got a nice long intake tube and would like to just keep your external cannister filter running (if that's the type you've got) then you can gravel-clean-water-remove right down to the substrate! Note that its always a good idea, even in a fishless cycle, to use your gravel cleaning siphon device and clean the gravel as the water is going out as this will potentially remove more of the nitrites and nitrates than otherwise sometimes (and their presence is yet another thing that can slow the growth a bit.)

When you refill with tap water, you need to "condition" with a product that removes chlorine/chloramine and in a new fishless cycling tank its a good idea to do that at 1.5x to 2x whatever the bottle tells you (but not more than 2x the dose.) This is because your bacterial colonies are very young and fragile and the water company might have overdosed the chlorine/chloramine a bit. Dose these amounts based on your bucket size OR if you decide to hose into the tank directly then dose for the full tank volume. The other thing you need to do with the return water is to roughly temperature match (your hand is good enough) so that the bacterial growth won't pause from the cold.

Then after you get the water all filled back up be sure to recharge your ammonia back up to 5ppm and test an hour or so later to verify that. The response to a water change most likely will not be an immediate return to quick drops of ammonia, but don't worry, if you've successfully raised the pH back up close to the tap level the bacteria should begin getting active again in the next day or two.

If you observe the pH -AGAIN- rapidly dropping then we'll have to consider more drastic measures than just a water change and we (me or some other member) can talk about that when it happens.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. KH is short for the german words for Carbonate Hardness, a measure of one of the two major groupings of minerals in the water that make up the overall "hardness." KH can be used as a more sensitive and a leading indicator of when pH is likely to drop, allowing you to act prior to the bacterial growth slowing down. But again, let's give it a week or so before spending more money on more test kits.

Thank you for that, I will try using my syphon every now and then I'm pleased I wont have to start over! Phew! I've just dosed some more ammonia, so now it is 4ppm. I will test for it again in the morning

I will continue checking for pH to make sure it isn't dropping.. I hope it wont again!

Thank you again for your help