Fishless Cycle

[190MPH]

I'm a little over 3 weeks into my non-planted fishless cycle now and here is whats going on. About 2-3ppm ammonia is being processed out in 10 hrs or less and I'm adding daily. My nitrite peaked at ~ 5ppm about 10 days ago and has steadily declined and has been sitting at .25-.5 for nearly a week. Strangely, nitrate has been at 5-10ppm for this same time without shooting up. I've kept the water at a steady 85*F, ph has sat pretty well @ 7.8-8, KH is 5*, GH 9*. It seems to me I'm at that stagnant phase where all of a sudden everything will be zero and it will be done. What are your thoughts?

 

[backtotropical]

Hi 190,

I think your diagnosis is correct. Leave it alone and it will come good. However, if you are unsure, it wouldn't hurt to do a 90% water change and then recharge the ammonia back up to 3ppm or whatever you have been adding.

Sometimes a large water change can seem to make all the difference to a cycle which appears to be going by the book.

Keep us updated?

Cheers

BTT

 

[190MPH]

Thank you BTT. I am going to give it a couple of more days as is to see if it progresses. If not, then maybe I will do a WC. By the way, today I noticed a white lint-like substance on my fake plants. Any idea what this could be?

 

[190MPH]

OK, well after wondering about my interpretation of the results of my FL cycle water tests(API), I took a sample to the LFS where I will be buying my stock to get an experienced opinion. It is a well established store that I have visited a few times and they seem very knowledgable. I did notice last time that they also use the API tests. The one thing I wasn't sure about was the nitrite level. When he put the drops in, he said without hesitation that they were off the chart. The drops turned purple in the bottom of the tube instantly. I now have peace of mind to know that my cycle is not complete, which also explains the low nitrate levels. More to come.

 

[Paavn]

OK, well after wondering about my interpretation of the results of my FL cycle water tests(API), I took a sample to the LFS where I will be buying my stock to get an experienced opinion. It is a well established store that I have visited a few times and they seem very knowledgable. I did notice last time that they also use the API tests. The one thing I wasn't sure about was the nitrite level. When he put the drops in, he said without hesitation that they were off the chart. The drops turned purple in the bottom of the tube instantly. I now have peace of mind to know that my cycle is not complete, which also explains the low nitrate levels. More to come.

i was at that stage last week and now it takes a bit longer for the drops to turn purple, but i still havnt seen a rise in nitrate at all using the API test kit, i had a couple of those really bad test strips and i put the drops on it and it instantly turned the nitrate reading off the charts - i think i rmr reading somewhere on this forum that those measure nitrite as nitrates so its always wrong.
as of today i am a week and 4 days into the nitrite spike with it just starting to go down

 

[190MPH]

I did a 50-60% water change today, then retested nitrite 3 hrs later and it was now readable at 2ppm. I will do my daily dose of ammonia to 2-3 ppm again the same time tomorrow.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, it is just a fact of life that the N-Bac species is one of the slowest growing. Both of you sound like you are figuring out where your cycle is along the progression line.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[backtotropical]

Yes, it is just a fact of life that the N-Bac species is one of the slowest growing.

~~waterdrop~~

This may be pedantic, and sorry if it is (thats not how it is intended), but Schmill raised a good point about whether this is actually true in the linked thread below.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=269746

I don't recall this ever coming to a conclusion, but it seems from the sources that N-Bacs actually grow faster than A-Bacs, and we can only assume, unless anyone knows otherwise, that the N-Bacs take so long not because they are slower growing, but actually because their colony needs to be many times larger.

I thought this might interest you, WD? Maybe a topic for the Scientific Section? Maybe Bignose?

BTT

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, it is just a fact of life that the N-Bac species is one of the slowest growing.

~~waterdrop~~

This may be pedantic, and sorry if it is (thats not how it is intended), but Schmill raised a good point about whether this is actually true in the linked thread below.

[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=269746"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=269746[/URL]

I don't recall this ever coming to a conclusion, but it seems from the sources that N-Bacs actually grow faster than A-Bacs, and we can only assume, unless anyone knows otherwise, that the N-Bacs take so long not because they are slower growing, but actually because their colony needs to be many times larger.

I thought this might interest you, WD? Maybe a topic for the Scientific Section? Maybe Bignose?

BTT

OK BTT, this is an interesting example of what you and I have talked about from time to time I guess of the difficulty of staying clear on these things without keeping good outside notes of ones own study!! I have to say I'm a little disturbed at the thought that I may have been spreading "technical mis-information" a number of times if this works out as it appears above.

I have to say that my "impression" (from which I was spewing this stuff) was that N-Bac division was slower (at around an average of 24 hours for cell division) than A-Bac, which I thought to be less than 24 hours on average. I believe that cell division for both these autotrophs is considered to be a lot slower than the overall average for most bacteria, in particular I believe the heterotrophs that typically break down organics out in our tank water have much, much faster cell division. As for the division rates between our two, I had believed that Hovanec had discussed the N-Bacs being slow and I'm disturbed that I may have latched onto the fact that the N-Bac dependent stages of our typical fishless process may have influenced my mistakenly describing their division as occurring at a slower rate when this may have been wrong. If the microbe wiki source you've presented is correct then the scenario laid out in the referenced thread certainly points to the amounts of materials being processed as the more visible factor rather than the numbers of cells in the colonies. I don't believe I have ever read before the assertion that "Nitrosomonas must consume vast amounts of ammonia, making the division process last for several days." and I still have some concern that the wiki entry is describing 10 or more species in the genus Nitrosomonas. Still, I will presume that I stand corrected and that I should in future say that the nitrite process is slower rather than that the N-Bacs themselves are slower! At least unless I can dig up any references to the contrary! As you know, I have the 3 Hovanec articles handy to comb through (if I only didn't have to have a job .)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

As you know, I have the 3 Hovanec articles handy to comb through (if I only didn't have to have a job .)

swap you!

 

[waterdrop]

As you know, I have the 3 Hovanec articles handy to comb through (if I only didn't have to have a job .)

swap you!

O dear, I didn't "get it" for a moment ...sorry, very unfortunate phrase for me to have used, given the current climate!!!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

don't worry no offence taken.

good news though if you don't mind me hijacking the thread for just a sec, Ian's started a temping job today, just minimum wage but better than no wage! also the company that want to employ me but the job is on hold released some news yesterday about a new CEO and a new direction for the company, they are putting much more emphasis on the side of the business that wanted to recruit me so I'm hoping that once it trickles through the company they'll be given the go-ahread to take me on....... fingers crossed.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, fingers always crossed for our MW! If we here on TFF can't afford to hire her full time as our tropical fish Den Mother (is Den Mother a USA term? haha) we certainly want her solvent and outfitting new aquariums in that newly fixed up flat over there!!

wd

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah i've not heard den mother before, must be an american term.

and if any of you would like to pay me a respectable wage so we can afford to send Ian to uni come sptember then i'd be most grateful!

 

[190MPH]

I'm sure that my problem was misinterpretting the dosing of ammonia. I was doing this EVERY time it dropped to zero, which was basically twice a day 12 hrs apart, instead of once a day . I checked my records and saw that I did it for 4 days, no wonder the nitrite was off the chart ! Since then, just 2-3ppm once a day. I'm assuming that is enough, correct? More updates to come.