Fishless Cycle

[jacden]

Hi, This is my first post,

I started a fishless cycle on my aquarium two weeks ago. I think it is progressing ok. Ammonia is being reduced from 4ppm to 0ppm within 12 hrs of adding ammonia, nitrites are 5+, Nitrates 5-10ppm (using API master test kit ). My tank is planted with java moss, anubias, vallis, java fern, aponogeton, hygrophylia, cabomba, all seem to be growing. substrate is jbl aqua basics plus, covered by black roman fine gravel. Should i expect to be seeing a higher nitrate reading? as it seems to be staying between 5-10ppm. temp. 25.c

Tank is 48insx 20d x 24h with weir containing filtersponges and bio balls. water flows into sump in cabinet beneath tank then over filter containing more bio balls , then through uv. (should this be on when tank is cycling?} It is then returned to the main tank.

Lighting is T5 54watt x3 (2 daylight 1 grolux }

Is there anything else i should be doing? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[jacden]

Hi, This is my first post,

I started a fishless cycle on my aquarium two weeks ago. I think it is progressing ok. Ammonia is being reduced from 4ppm to 0ppm within 12 hrs of adding ammonia, nitrites are 5+, Nitrates 5-10ppm (using API master test kit ). My tank is planted with java moss, anubias, vallis, java fern, aponogeton, hygrophylia, cabomba, all seem to be growing. substrate is jbl aqua basics plus, covered by black roman fine gravel. Should i expect to be seeing a higher nitrate reading? as it seems to be staying between 5-10ppm. temp. 25.c

Tank is 48insx 20d x 24h with weir containing filtersponges and bio balls. water flows into sump in cabinet beneath tank then over filter containing more bio balls , then through uv. (should this be on when tank is cycling?} It is then returned to the main tank.

Lighting is T5 54watt x3 (2 daylight 1 grolux }

Is there anything else i should be doing? Any advice would be appreciated.

no replies yet ...... please anyone willing to reply.? have kept tropicals and marines in the past but never done a fishless cycle before, could do with any advice, it will be appreciated.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

sounds like it's going well, the plants will be using up some of the nitrates which is probably why they are staying relativley low.

 

[rdd1952]

Sound like it's going fine. Actually, you probably won't see the nitrates climb as much as the plants will use some of the ammonia in it's pure form rather than it being processed. The actualy prefer the ammonia instead of nitrates.

 

[minxfishy]

Hi, sounds like its going fine to me (no expert though!)

It will take a little longer for the NitItes to convert than it did for the ammonia, just keep testing daily and adding ammonia back up to 3-4ppm until both ammonia and nitItes go back to 0 within 12hrs. You will start to see the NitrAtes go up slowly over time.

You could raise your temp a bit, can help with the bacteria growth, also keep an eye on you Ph, if it starts to go down below 6.5 (depending on what it was originally) the cycle could crash and you may need to do a water change to raise your Ph again. Hang in there, your definately going in the right directly

Currently cycling my 3rd tank at the moment, my Ph crashed and the cycled has stalled, so just done an 80% water change myself

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Sound like it's going fine. Actually, you probably won't see the nitrates climb as much as the plants will use some of the ammonia in it's pure form rather than it being processed. The actualy prefer the ammonia instead of nitrates.

yup, just to clarify so you fully understand what's going on.

when the plants use up the ammonia instead of the filter using it (or as is more common the plants use some and the filter also cycles some) this process is called 'silent cycling' not fishless cycling.

it's a technique often used on planted tanks where you have so many plants in that they will use all the ammonia up and as such don't need to cycle the filter, you just add fish straight away. however this does need v dense planting to work, it's also risky because if the plants start to die or you do a heavy prune or something like that you'll find the plants unable to process the ammonia produced by the fish, an uncycled filter and that spells big trouble for the fish.

it's no big worry for you as you don't have enough plants to use up all the ammonia so the filter is cycling as well as the plants using some ammonia (the nitrite is evidence of this as the plants don't produce any but the filter does) so you shouldn't have problems, but it's just something to be aware of that in heavily planted tanks the plants will be filtering it to some extent and so you should take the same care not to kill them as you do your filter bacteria colony.

 

[jacden]

Sound like it's going fine. Actually, you probably won't see the nitrates climb as much as the plants will use some of the ammonia in it's pure form rather than it being processed. The actualy prefer the ammonia instead of nitrates.

yup, just to clarify so you fully understand what's going on.

when the plants use up the ammonia instead of the filter using it (or as is more common the plants use some and the filter also cycles some) this process is called 'silent cycling' not fishless cycling.

it's a technique often used on planted tanks where you have so many plants in that they will use all the ammonia up and as such don't need to cycle the filter, you just add fish straight away. however this does need v dense planting to work, it's also risky because if the plants start to die or you do a heavy prune or something like that you'll find the plants unable to process the ammonia produced by the fish, an uncycled filter and that spells big trouble for the fish.

it's no big worry for you as you don't have enough plants to use up all the ammonia so the filter is cycling as well as the plants using some ammonia (the nitrite is evidence of this as the plants don't produce any but the filter does) so you shouldn't have problems, but it's just something to be aware of that in heavily planted tanks the plants will be filtering it to some extent and so you should take the same care not to kill them as you do your filter bacteria colony.

Oops imessed up on previous reply. Thanks to everyone who took time to reply ,it is much appreciated. I will raise the temp to around 80.f Ihave noticed a drop in ph from 8 to 7.4 since the start , i will keep an eye on that. Thanks RDD1952 and miss wiggle for the info on how the plants can affect the cycle etc., glad you made me aware of it, i will certainly bear it in mind when it comes to pruning etc. my plants do seem to be growing rapidly.

 

[waterdrop]

Sound like it's going fine. Actually, you probably won't see the nitrates climb as much as the plants will use some of the ammonia in it's pure form rather than it being processed. The actualy prefer the ammonia instead of nitrates.

yup, just to clarify so you fully understand what's going on.

when the plants use up the ammonia instead of the filter using it (or as is more common the plants use some and the filter also cycles some) this process is called 'silent cycling' not fishless cycling.

it's a technique often used on planted tanks where you have so many plants in that they will use all the ammonia up and as such don't need to cycle the filter, you just add fish straight away. however this does need v dense planting to work, it's also risky because if the plants start to die or you do a heavy prune or something like that you'll find the plants unable to process the ammonia produced by the fish, an uncycled filter and that spells big trouble for the fish.

it's no big worry for you as you don't have enough plants to use up all the ammonia so the filter is cycling as well as the plants using some ammonia (the nitrite is evidence of this as the plants don't produce any but the filter does) so you shouldn't have problems, but it's just something to be aware of that in heavily planted tanks the plants will be filtering it to some extent and so you should take the same care not to kill them as you do your filter bacteria colony.

Oops imessed up on previous reply. Thanks to everyone who took time to reply ,it is much appreciated. I will raise the temp to around 80.f Ihave noticed a drop in ph from 8 to 7.4 since the start , i will keep an eye on that. Thanks RDD1952 and miss wiggle for the info on how the plants can affect the cycle etc., glad you made me aware of it, i will certainly bear it in mind when it comes to pruning etc. my plants do seem to be growing rapidly.

If your pH has already dropped from 8 to 7.4 then it may be moving pretty quickly down. Be ready to do a large water change (for you it would probably make sense to let the support of the plants determine how far down to let the water go - you'd want to go as low as you could without uprooting heavier plants and maybe because of that you'd keep the water high enough for your filter intake to keep working and save yourself the trouble of turning that off.) Don't forget to add your conditioner to the return water and even though there aren't fish, you could still rough temperature match and then of course don't forget to re-charge your ammonia back up to the 4ppm or whatever level you are going for.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jacden]

Sound like it's going fine. Actually, you probably won't see the nitrates climb as much as the plants will use some of the ammonia in it's pure form rather than it being processed. The actualy prefer the ammonia instead of nitrates.

yup, just to clarify so you fully understand what's going on.

when the plants use up the ammonia instead of the filter using it (or as is more common the plants use some and the filter also cycles some) this process is called 'silent cycling' not fishless cycling.

it's a technique often used on planted tanks where you have so many plants in that they will use all the ammonia up and as such don't need to cycle the filter, you just add fish straight away. however this does need v dense planting to work, it's also risky because if the plants start to die or you do a heavy prune or something like that you'll find the plants unable to process the ammonia produced by the fish, an uncycled filter and that spells big trouble for the fish.

it's no big worry for you as you don't have enough plants to use up all the ammonia so the filter is cycling as well as the plants using some ammonia (the nitrite is evidence of this as the plants don't produce any but the filter does) so you shouldn't have problems, but it's just something to be aware of that in heavily planted tanks the plants will be filtering it to some extent and so you should take the same care not to kill them as you do your filter bacteria colony.

Oops imessed up on previous reply. Thanks to everyone who took time to reply ,it is much appreciated. I will raise the temp to around 80.f Ihave noticed a drop in ph from 8 to 7.4 since the start , i will keep an eye on that. Thanks RDD1952 and miss wiggle for the info on how the plants can affect the cycle etc., glad you made me aware of it, i will certainly bear it in mind when it comes to pruning etc. my plants do seem to be growing rapidly.

If your pH has already dropped from 8 to 7.4 then it may be moving pretty quickly down. Be ready to do a large water change (for you it would probably make sense to let the support of the plants determine how far down to let the water go - you'd want to go as low as you could without uprooting heavier plants and maybe because of that you'd keep the water high enough for your filter intake to keep working and save yourself the trouble of turning that off.) Don't forget to add your conditioner to the return water and even though there aren't fish, you could still rough temperature match and then of course don't forget to re-charge your ammonia back up to the 4ppm or whatever level you are going for.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for the advice , I will check ph am. and pm. I have been topping up evaporation from R.O. unit this could be contributing to the lowering ph maybe ! ...... Ill use dechlorinated tap from now on .

 

[waterdrop]

Sound like it's going fine. Actually, you probably won't see the nitrates climb as much as the plants will use some of the ammonia in it's pure form rather than it being processed. The actualy prefer the ammonia instead of nitrates.

yup, just to clarify so you fully understand what's going on.

when the plants use up the ammonia instead of the filter using it (or as is more common the plants use some and the filter also cycles some) this process is called 'silent cycling' not fishless cycling.

it's a technique often used on planted tanks where you have so many plants in that they will use all the ammonia up and as such don't need to cycle the filter, you just add fish straight away. however this does need v dense planting to work, it's also risky because if the plants start to die or you do a heavy prune or something like that you'll find the plants unable to process the ammonia produced by the fish, an uncycled filter and that spells big trouble for the fish.

it's no big worry for you as you don't have enough plants to use up all the ammonia so the filter is cycling as well as the plants using some ammonia (the nitrite is evidence of this as the plants don't produce any but the filter does) so you shouldn't have problems, but it's just something to be aware of that in heavily planted tanks the plants will be filtering it to some extent and so you should take the same care not to kill them as you do your filter bacteria colony.

Oops imessed up on previous reply. Thanks to everyone who took time to reply ,it is much appreciated. I will raise the temp to around 80.f Ihave noticed a drop in ph from 8 to 7.4 since the start , i will keep an eye on that. Thanks RDD1952 and miss wiggle for the info on how the plants can affect the cycle etc., glad you made me aware of it, i will certainly bear it in mind when it comes to pruning etc. my plants do seem to be growing rapidly.

If your pH has already dropped from 8 to 7.4 then it may be moving pretty quickly down. Be ready to do a large water change (for you it would probably make sense to let the support of the plants determine how far down to let the water go - you'd want to go as low as you could without uprooting heavier plants and maybe because of that you'd keep the water high enough for your filter intake to keep working and save yourself the trouble of turning that off.) Don't forget to add your conditioner to the return water and even though there aren't fish, you could still rough temperature match and then of course don't forget to re-charge your ammonia back up to the 4ppm or whatever level you are going for.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for the advice , I will check ph am. and pm. I have been topping up evaporation from R.O. unit this could be contributing to the lowering ph maybe ! ...... Ill use dechlorinated tap from now on .

I think RO water will have KH=0, lowering the buffering of your water as more RO is added in. Since Nitrates are building up and they are acid, your pH will be forced downward pretty steadily.

 

[jacden]

Sound like it's going fine. Actually, you probably won't see the nitrates climb as much as the plants will use some of the ammonia in it's pure form rather than it being processed. The actualy prefer the ammonia instead of nitrates.

yup, just to clarify so you fully understand what's going on.

when the plants use up the ammonia instead of the filter using it (or as is more common the plants use some and the filter also cycles some) this process is called 'silent cycling' not fishless cycling.

it's a technique often used on planted tanks where you have so many plants in that they will use all the ammonia up and as such don't need to cycle the filter, you just add fish straight away. however this does need v dense planting to work, it's also risky because if the plants start to die or you do a heavy prune or something like that you'll find the plants unable to process the ammonia produced by the fish, an uncycled filter and that spells big trouble for the fish.

it's no big worry for you as you don't have enough plants to use up all the ammonia so the filter is cycling as well as the plants using some ammonia (the nitrite is evidence of this as the plants don't produce any but the filter does) so you shouldn't have problems, but it's just something to be aware of that in heavily planted tanks the plants will be filtering it to some extent and so you should take the same care not to kill them as you do your filter bacteria colony.

Oops imessed up on previous reply. Thanks to everyone who took time to reply ,it is much appreciated. I will raise the temp to around 80.f Ihave noticed a drop in ph from 8 to 7.4 since the start , i will keep an eye on that. Thanks RDD1952 and miss wiggle for the info on how the plants can affect the cycle etc., glad you made me aware of it, i will certainly bear it in mind when it comes to pruning etc. my plants do seem to be growing rapidly.

If your pH has already dropped from 8 to 7.4 then it may be moving pretty quickly down. Be ready to do a large water change (for you it would probably make sense to let the support of the plants determine how far down to let the water go - you'd want to go as low as you could without uprooting heavier plants and maybe because of that you'd keep the water high enough for your filter intake to keep working and save yourself the trouble of turning that off.) Don't forget to add your conditioner to the return water and even though there aren't fish, you could still rough temperature match and then of course don't forget to re-charge your ammonia back up to the 4ppm or whatever level you are going for.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for the advice , I will check ph am. and pm. I have been topping up evaporation from R.O. unit this could be contributing to the lowering ph maybe ! ...... Ill use dechlorinated tap from now on .

I think RO water will have KH=0, lowering the buffering of your water as more RO is added in. Since Nitrates are building up and they are acid, your pH will be forced downward pretty steadily.

thanks for your help waterdrop it's beginning to make more sense now.

 

[jacden]

Sound like it's going fine. Actually, you probably won't see the nitrates climb as much as the plants will use some of the ammonia in it's pure form rather than it being processed. The actualy prefer the ammonia instead of nitrates.

yup, just to clarify so you fully understand what's going on.

when the plants use up the ammonia instead of the filter using it (or as is more common the plants use some and the filter also cycles some) this process is called 'silent cycling' not fishless cycling.

it's a technique often used on planted tanks where you have so many plants in that they will use all the ammonia up and as such don't need to cycle the filter, you just add fish straight away. however this does need v dense planting to work, it's also risky because if the plants start to die or you do a heavy prune or something like that you'll find the plants unable to process the ammonia produced by the fish, an uncycled filter and that spells big trouble for the fish.

it's no big worry for you as you don't have enough plants to use up all the ammonia so the filter is cycling as well as the plants using some ammonia (the nitrite is evidence of this as the plants don't produce any but the filter does) so you shouldn't have problems, but it's just something to be aware of that in heavily planted tanks the plants will be filtering it to some extent and so you should take the same care not to kill them as you do your filter bacteria colony.

Oops imessed up on previous reply. Thanks to everyone who took time to reply ,it is much appreciated. I will raise the temp to around 80.f Ihave noticed a drop in ph from 8 to 7.4 since the start , i will keep an eye on that. Thanks RDD1952 and miss wiggle for the info on how the plants can affect the cycle etc., glad you made me aware of it, i will certainly bear it in mind when it comes to pruning etc. my plants do seem to be growing rapidly.

If your pH has already dropped from 8 to 7.4 then it may be moving pretty quickly down. Be ready to do a large water change (for you it would probably make sense to let the support of the plants determine how far down to let the water go - you'd want to go as low as you could without uprooting heavier plants and maybe because of that you'd keep the water high enough for your filter intake to keep working and save yourself the trouble of turning that off.) Don't forget to add your conditioner to the return water and even though there aren't fish, you could still rough temperature match and then of course don't forget to re-charge your ammonia back up to the 4ppm or whatever level you are going for.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for the advice , I will check ph am. and pm. I have been topping up evaporation from R.O. unit this could be contributing to the lowering ph maybe ! ...... Ill use dechlorinated tap from now on .

I think RO water will have KH=0, lowering the buffering of your water as more RO is added in. Since Nitrates are building up and they are acid, your pH will be forced downward pretty steadily.

thanks for your help waterdrop it's beginning to make more sense now.

Help !! As waterdrop predicted my ph is down to 6.8 this morning. The kh is 20mg/L( nutrafin test), Do I do waterchange ? Do i add bicarbonate of soda? If so how much? Tank is approx 85gals .

 

[jacden]

Sound like it's going fine. Actually, you probably won't see the nitrates climb as much as the plants will use some of the ammonia in it's pure form rather than it being processed. The actualy prefer the ammonia instead of nitrates.

yup, just to clarify so you fully understand what's going on.

when the plants use up the ammonia instead of the filter using it (or as is more common the plants use some and the filter also cycles some) this process is called 'silent cycling' not fishless cycling.

it's a technique often used on planted tanks where you have so many plants in that they will use all the ammonia up and as such don't need to cycle the filter, you just add fish straight away. however this does need v dense planting to work, it's also risky because if the plants start to die or you do a heavy prune or something like that you'll find the plants unable to process the ammonia produced by the fish, an uncycled filter and that spells big trouble for the fish.

it's no big worry for you as you don't have enough plants to use up all the ammonia so the filter is cycling as well as the plants using some ammonia (the nitrite is evidence of this as the plants don't produce any but the filter does) so you shouldn't have problems, but it's just something to be aware of that in heavily planted tanks the plants will be filtering it to some extent and so you should take the same care not to kill them as you do your filter bacteria colony.

Oops imessed up on previous reply. Thanks to everyone who took time to reply ,it is much appreciated. I will raise the temp to around 80.f Ihave noticed a drop in ph from 8 to 7.4 since the start , i will keep an eye on that. Thanks RDD1952 and miss wiggle for the info on how the plants can affect the cycle etc., glad you made me aware of it, i will certainly bear it in mind when it comes to pruning etc. my plants do seem to be growing rapidly.

If your pH has already dropped from 8 to 7.4 then it may be moving pretty quickly down. Be ready to do a large water change (for you it would probably make sense to let the support of the plants determine how far down to let the water go - you'd want to go as low as you could without uprooting heavier plants and maybe because of that you'd keep the water high enough for your filter intake to keep working and save yourself the trouble of turning that off.) Don't forget to add your conditioner to the return water and even though there aren't fish, you could still rough temperature match and then of course don't forget to re-charge your ammonia back up to the 4ppm or whatever level you are going for.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for the advice , I will check ph am. and pm. I have been topping up evaporation from R.O. unit this could be contributing to the lowering ph maybe ! ...... Ill use dechlorinated tap from now on .

I think RO water will have KH=0, lowering the buffering of your water as more RO is added in. Since Nitrates are building up and they are acid, your pH will be forced downward pretty steadily.

thanks for your help waterdrop it's beginning to make more sense now.

Help !! As waterdrop predicted my ph is down to 6.8 this morning. The kh is 20mg/L( nutrafin test), Do I do waterchange ? Do i add bicarbonate of soda? If so how much? Tank is approx 85gals . do i also add crushed coral to raise kh.(is that right?)

ammonia is oppm ; nitrites 5ppm ; nitrates 10ppm Temp

 

[minxfishy]

Hi, I dont know about adding soda, when my ph crashed during the cycle, I did a 90% waterchange, with dechlorinator, it raised my ph back up to the original starting point of 7.8. Several days since, its now processing ammonia, Nitrite to 0 in 24 hrs.

The ph crash will stall the cycle, so I would do the waterchange, leave it an hour and re-test your ph. It should be back to normal range and of course, dont forget to add more ammonia back to 5ppm after the waterchange and the cycle will re-start.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

stop using RO, just do a massive water change with dechlorinated tap water, this will have a better KH hopefully and the pH will stop falling.

If it continues to fall when you're just using tap water then you may consider baking soda or something like that but just see what you're normal tap water does by itself first.