Fish Tank Worries

[Chas]

Hello

Me and my other half had been toying over getting some fish for our two kids and ourselves for a couple of months when my other half got offered a bargain 60litre tank with filter, heater, gravel, gravel mat and pump. (It originally housed a puffer fish which sadly died.)

We snapped it up and a friend of a friend helped set up the tank with eight baby mollies, a couple of rocks, a piece of wood and some plastic plants.

As he was desperate to move the baby mollies, they went straight into the tank after running the tank for only two days. (75F)

A couple of days later we went to get a pleco (advice from the friend of a friend) but were told to leave the tank for at least four weeks for algae to build up. So we bought 3 glowlights and 3 neons as they looked great and wouldn't eat the mollies. The tetras went straight into the tank with the baby mollies.

The next day I took the kids to a different shop and bought 3 more neons (I felt the ones we had looked lonely), 7 harlequins (should have been six harlequins but we got an extra one by surprise) and one real plant. I asked the man in the shop if this was too many fish for our tank but the bloke said it should be fine.

So that's:
8 baby mollies: They swim against the current from the air hose thing and get caught in the turbulence from the filter which is really funny.
7 harlequins: They hide at the side and then periodically go for swims.
6 neons: They swim all over but one of the Neons stays at the bottom with jerky movements, we call him Shaky.
3 glowlights: They swim with the Neons and Harlequins.
(Two rocks which the fish can swim through, one piece of wood, one real plant and two plastic plants.)

After all this I decided to go onto the internet and look for a few fish facts and helpful advice.

Now I am worried

I am worried that I have stocked up far too quickly with too many fish. Even if they are tiny.

I am worried that the water will not be up to scratch.

I am worried that there will not be enough bacteria. (The gravel in the tank is old but had been washed, although if you stir it up a lot of particles/dirt is released.)

I am worried about this nitrogen cycle business.

Can anybody offer me some constructive advice to help me make sure all the fish survive?

Thanks

Chas

P.S. Sorry but I originally posted this in Newbies.

 

[tstenback]

Do you have test kits to test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? If not then this is the first thing to do. If you can not get these right now then take a sample of water to the lfs and ask them to test these levels for you. these levels will indicate what if anything is going on in your tank right now, in relation to water quality/spikes.
Also if you cannot get the water tested right away then do daily 15% water changes to keep the levels down until you can get the testing done. HTH

 

[ajhainey]

First off - get a test kit. You want one that tests at least ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. ph, kh, gh etc can probably wait for now, unless you get some kind of all in one.

Then you can see how things are doing in there....as I would agree that seems a lot of fish, and IME neons are not the best fish to try and cycle with, but hey it could be worse, nothing has died yet, and you might get lucky!

If you can take something back or split the fish off into two tanks that would help (easier to cycle two low load tanks than one high load tank) but assuming thats not an option, its just a case of keeping on top of the water conditions.

1) Get a test kit & chlorine remover/stress coat for water changes (I use tetra aquasafe)
2) Test your tap water - pray its something below 40ppm nitrate
3) Test the current state of the tank...you are hoping for low numbers but these will 'spike' up as you cycle the tank. Aim for something like
Ammonia (ideal <0.5ppm) (expected <1ppm) (max 2ppm)
Nitrite (ideal <1ppm) (expected < 2ppm) (max 3ppm)
Nitrate (ideal <25ppm)(expected < 50ppm) (max 100ppm)
4) Test your tank water everyday
5) Each day you are over 'ideal' for one of these parameters do a 15 litre water change
6) Each day you are over the 'expected' for one of them do two changes of 15litres that day, as far apart as you can get them (e.g when you first get home and before you go to bed)
7) If things get over the 'max' (5ppm ammonia etc) up to 3 changes a day and hope for the best
8) If params stay under ideal do 1 15l change every week.

Remember to feed the fish only once a day and a small amount, as this will also help keep the ammonia/nitrite under control.

If you can steal some filter material from a friend with a heathy tank drop it in your tank - it will help. I also found Hagen 'Cycle' helped my tank, but not everyone does. Its supposed to contai the bacteria you need to cycle your tank but I suspect if not stored correctly these die and the bottle is then effectively useless. Its kinds pot luck if you get a good one.

Don't buy any more fish You look overstocked to me even for after cycling, but whats done is done, and they are pretty small atm, so you may be ok. I would think about offloading some onto a friend/bigger tank later. 8 mollies would be 25" of fish when fully grown, and thus need a 100l tank on their own (in theory!) to give you some idea what I mean.

With so many fish you would expect to see things happen pretty fast - I would expect there to already be a considerable amount of ammonia in your tank, and possibly some nitrite.

Let us know what you find when you get the test kit, and good luck!

aj xx
p.s I've assumed you've read up elsewhere on the theory of the cycle/spikes and that you know what the chlorine remover is for/how to water change - if not let us know and I/someone else will tell you!

 

[Chas]

What is the right way to change water?

I have some Stress Coat. Do I remove water then add tap water then add Stress Coat? Or, do I add the stress coat to some tap water and let it stand for a while before adding it to the tank?

The mollies are less than 1cm at the moment.

Will the fact that I have old gravel help?

What are the chances the fish will survive?

Chas

 

[jvis0606]

The old gravel would be of great help if it hadn't been washed.

Fill up a bucket (make sure it is a clean bucket and not one that had cleaners/soaps in it previously that might still be on the surface) with replacement water, add the Stress Coat and stir around, wait 10-15 minutes and then add the water to the tank.

I've been trying to cycle my tank with fish... I think the ammonia and nitrites have gotten to them, I have had 4 deaths, but then again there are some that are lasting through it all without a problem. When the ammonia/nitrites get high, I do a water change (even though this prolongs the cycling process).

Good luck!

 

[ajhainey]

Water Changes.

1) Siphon water out into a bucket (which shuold be used only for fish related stuff) - if you don't have a siphon a cup/jug will do for removing small volumes
2) Throw that water away
3) Refill bucket with fresh cold water from the tap. Add appropriate amount of chlorine remover (stresscoat) - the volume you use for working out how much to add is that of the water change (15l) not that of the tank (60l)
4) Swirl!
5) Add a small amount of hot water (from kettle not tap) to bring overall temp close to current tank temp.
6)Leave to stand for 15mins or so.
7) Siphon new water back into tank (can pour if careful and have no siphon)

The old gravel probably won't help because once its dried out the bacteria die. Fresh gravel/filter fro a running tank would help.

I would be suprised if all the tetras make it, I lost several when my tank was cycling (I know, I know, they were rescues from somewhere even worse...) I don't know how hardy harlequins or mollies are so can't guess how they'll do...

aj xx

 

[Chas]

The man who set the tank up said that I shouldn't change the water for a couple of weeks or bother to test it for ammonia!! He said that he has kept fish for years without worrying about such things.

Chas

 

[clutterydrawer]

I think it'd only be possible to do that if you stocked very slowly...

 

[Chas]

See picture here:

5 days old
Picture here

I think I'll take the advice here and test the water as I would only regret it if I didn't and the fish popped it.

What sort of fish behaviour would indicate that there are problems?

At the moment:

Baby mollies x 8: Spend a lot of time near the surface swimming against the current from the aeriator tube thing (What do you call it?). Sometimes they adventure down and nibble at the plant, wood and gravel. The funny thing is that a couple of them seem to be a lot more adventurous. Mainly yellow but one is brown, one is bright yellow and one is white/pale yellow. Every time I look at the tank I count them cos they are so diddy.

Neon tetras x 6: Mostly swim around the bottom then stop for a while in a group sometimes with the Harlequins. One of the neon tetras is called Shaky and doesn't venture or move much. He hides in the hollow rock. He has jerky movements but has been like that from the instant I put him in. The other neons appear to encourage him to move out which he seldom does. I haven't seen him feed but he looks healthy otherwise. I keep expecting to see him pop it.

Glowlight tetras x 3: They swim around together, bit like the Neons but they appear more adventurous. They like swimming with the Harlequins.

Harlequins: I got seven by accident as the shopkeeper bagged them up wrong. They swim around together darting to the surface for food. They rest in a group in one corner of the tank. They are sometimes joined by the tetras. One harlequin doesn't care who he swims with and sometimes swims with the glowlights. The Harlequins sometimes dart up to the baby mollies but they don't nip.

I really hope that I haven't been a right plonker and it all goes wrong cos in the short space of time I have had them I have grown really fond of them. Sad as it seems I sit next to the tank and spend hours watching them.

Thanks

Chas

 

[Aquascaper]

If it's any consolation i've just had a major ammonia spike which has killed my favourite plec but none of my tetras

Good luck and keep posting your test results

 

[Aquascaper]

Ammonia poisoning can be indicated by 'gasping' at the surface and/or red gills.
From the sounds of it they all seem pretty much ok for now. Just keep the water changes going, your testing going and your fingers crossed

 

[Chas]

Red gills?

When you say red, how red? What colour are normal gills?

Chas

 

[Chas]

Update: Fish tank worries (9 days old, 7 with fish)

7 days - Shaky the quivering neon tetra was found dead. Actually I couldn't find him and was puzzling as to the possibilty of him being eaten but I didn't think that tetras, baby mollies or harlequins would eat a dead tetra. I finally found him/her stuck dead between the bottom shoots of a plastic plant. I think he was doomed from the word go and is a lesson for me to check the condition of the fish before I leave the shop!

I showed Shaky to the kids and told them that he was off to fish heaven.

Meanwhile I have tested the water for ammonia and the result came back 0.

I didn't get a nitrite kit but I did buy some stress zyme which I added after the test.

So is it still or is it going to be B) ?

1. Do you think that everything will be OK now or do you think that I should get a nitrite kit?

2. My tank was second hand and came with gravel which in hindsight was wet and maybe unwashed. Do you think this is why the ammonia reading came back zero?

3. The tank came with an UG filter. Can anybody give me some advice about these as I have read contradictory things about them?

4. I have an UG filter and a canister (inside the tank) filter. Do I need both? The canister filter is submerged and I have it on full power. It is pumping water across the width of the tank as opposed to the length. Is this OK?

Thanks for everybody's replies.

Chas

 

[appleblossom]

you may be lucky with the gravel, and still have the remenants of a bacteria colony which has given you a head start. You really do need a nitrite and a nitrate test kit as these will let you (or us) see what stage your cycle is at.

If you have both an internal and an under gravel filter then I would remove, or turn off the undergravel. They suck waste into your gravel which makes it harder to remove during cleaning and generally arent anywhere near as good as an internal filter, so if you have one, use that instead.

The normal colour of the gills depends on the fish, just something to keep an eye out for if you see a change...

 

[Chas]

One of my baby mollies has died, cos I haven't seen him since yesterday and I cannot find him in the tank!

Any tips for finding dead fry (1cm) in multicoloured gravel?

Will the other fish eat it (baby Mollies, neon tetras and harlequins)?

Chas