Fish Stressed First Chem Readings

[photoj]

Ok i'm about three weeks into my 30 gal cycle with fish in (3 Platies and a swordtail) I started a fish in cycle before I knew about the fishless cycle. As mentioned in previous posts I have two under gravel filters as well as a hanging filter on the back of the tank with the chem/bio/charcoal media in it. and four plants ana piece of Malaysian hard wood.
One of the platies has been hiding and seemed to be not as bright as she was last week. I went to the LFS and bought a Quick dip 6 tests on one strip kit and here are the numbers.
I just did a 20% water change about 3 hours ago. I also added Big Al's Multi-purpose Bio-Support as per instructions of one teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. I also put in Doc Wellfish's Aquarium salt as per instructions.
Just want to know how i'm looking. I'm a little worried but really enjoying this hobby. Any help would be appreciated.
Nitrate between 20-40
Nitrites2.0
GH-75
Chlorine0
Alkalinity-80
PH-7.8

 

[drobbyb]

Firstly, any presence of nitrite or ammonia is a bad thing. This indicates that you are still in a cycle. Secondly, the paper test strips are known for being innacurate. Liquid test kits are more accurate.

 

[toshapetriji]

You will get more accurate readings for your water parameters by using a liquid test kit such as API freshwater test kit. Many members of the forum use it and I would suggest you get one. It will provide many hundreds of tests for you so works out cheaper.

In the mean time you need to change water frequently maybe even every day but you must get your ammonia and nitrite readings down to nil. Even low levels are toxic to your fish.

Once you have re tested with the liquid test please post your readings for ammonia and nitrite back here and we will try to help you through the cycling of your tank.

Good luck.

 

[photoj]

Thanks for the replies. I will get one of the other kits soon but will need to use up the strip ones first. I'll do another 20% water change tomorrow and test again. Was it a good idea to add the Multi-purpose Bio-Support and the Aquarium salt? Do they actually make a difference or just one more thing for the LFS to sell us?
Thanks for all your help.

Cheers
photoj

 

[Schmill]

No idea whether those products do anything or not, but with the amount of water changes you are going to be doing over the coming days I wouldn't bother adding them anymore for now.
Were the test results in post #1 before or after a water change, if they were after, (or you haven't done one yet), don't wait until tomorrow, do another water change NOW. If the results were taken and then you have performed a water change, it is worth you retesting again now. If your nitrIte level is still not zero then, again, do another water change NOW.
Seems your test strips aren't testing for ammonia levels, which isn't overly helpful, (although I've never seen strips that test for chlorine, so perhaps there is some confusion there).
If the strips REALLY aren't testing for ammonia don't 'wait until the strips are used' before buying a liquid test kit, otherwise your fish may already be dead or at least severly damaged. Although nitrIte is toxic, and the levels of it can give us an 'idea' of what the ammonia might be, you REALLY want to be able to test for ammonia as that is highly toxic to the fish, can burn them, and is the one most likely to be spiking if you are still mid-cycle.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, agree with the other TFF members above.

If there is any accuracy to the reading you did get, you are rapidly on the way to killing your fish. Twenty percent water changes under such emergency conditions are meaningless. Water changes down around 20 to 40 percent are a procedure that has to do with maintenance of a healthy tank, not any meaning for an emergency situation such as yours may be.

Without having useful tests yet, your only course of action is, I believe, to perform an immediate 70% water change (hopefully your source-water is reasonable, but we don't have measurements on that either, so will have to assume so) with conditioner and rough temperature matching for the return water. Then an hour later perform a 50% change again, using the same technique. Having ammonia and nitrite in the water at anything above 0.25ppm trumps all other considerations -- those fish need fresh water to breathe.

Meanwhile, you do indeed need to get your hands on a good liquid-reagent test kit as outlined above. Your trip to get the test strips (along with the other useless chemical and salt) was, unfortunately, a waste of trip, fuel and cash. The strips are worse than useless, they are misleading and could lead you to make wrong decisions related to the tank one way or the other. A good liquid master test kit should be the very first core thing a beginner goes looking for, along with the raw tank and the filter - those 3 items are core to the hobby, along with some core sets of skills.

I don't mean this to sound harsh, its just that we see hundreds of similar cases to yours and the actions needed to turn things around and help you get the right kind of "real" start in the hobby are pretty well worked out. A LFS is a wonderful place to be able to quickly get the correct supplies you need for the hobby but its not a place to chat or seek help - there's a good chance the advice will do you a fair amount of harm. Salt, for instance, is not needed for your species and indeed could be pretty harmful in some cases. All you need is tap water, conditioner to remove the chlorine or chloramines your water authority adds and that's it from the water/chemical side of things.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[photoj]

Thanks for all the help.
Ok. As soon as I get home tonight 70% change than an hour later a 50%. I'm guessing i've had the high nitrite levels for the last two weeks. I went back to the LFS a couple of times to get more fish and they tested the water i brought in and said they were high and to do a 20% change and wait to get the fish later. I now know that this wasn't enough. They also told me i didn't need to feed them twice a day which is what i was doing. The fish seem to be doing ok, active and eating. But i will get on the emergency water changes tonight.

Cheers
dl

 

[photoj]

What's the best way to do a 70% water change? Should I take the fish out of the tank and put them in a separate tank until i finish?

Cheers
photoj

 

[JustKia]

I used a cd marker (on the outside of the tank) to mark the fill level and the top of the substrate.
Then I measured the distance between the 2, put a mark half way (that's 50%) and a mark half way between the middle one and each top and nottom mark (25% and 75%).
Then I simply siphon out the water to where I need to (at first this was out the window, then we made a DIY python instead). I guess the danios just think the sky is getting low or something, but I don't bother taking them out - they're OK so long as the remaining water is deep enough to swim in - it's not like you're going to leave them in such shallow water for long.
And then refill from the hose - as our water is really cold at the moment and I'm doing largish water changes regularly I do add some warm water to my refill. We have a combi boiler so I turn the water temp right down, run the mixer tap for a couple of mins then connect to the hose. I run the water off my hand and down the glass so I know it's at an OK temp and has stabilised.
Add my dechlor straight to the tank, which gets mixed in by the flow from the hose.
The danios like to play in the water flow.

Good luck, stick in there it'll be hard work, but worth it in the end.
Oh and the liquid test kit is an essential for keeping an eye on water changes. Maybe a bit pricey to begin with but certainly cheaper than guessing if the water is OK or not

 

[drobbyb]

What's the best way to do a 70% water change? Should I take the fish out of the tank and put them in a separate tank until i finish?

Cheers
photoj

No need to take the fish out of the tank. Simply drain 70% of the water, add dechlorinator, refill the tank with water that is close to the tank's temp, and start the filters.

 

[waterdrop]

No need to measure that carefully either. I just think of 50% as a rough guesstimate of halfway down the water column of the tank, 70% as halfway between that and the gravel and 90% (90% changes are sometimes done during a fishless cycle) as being down to the gravel.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LongS]

sorry to complicate things but i was told that it may not be a great idea to even out the temperature with water from the HOT tap.

Something to do with the amount of metal in the water from the boiler.

I run the cold tap then boil a kettle with water from the cold tap and add as needed. Not sure if this is really critical but its something i do with a water change.

Mabye someone more experienced could clear it up for you.

 

[JustKia]

sorry to complicate things but i was told that it may not be a great idea to even out the temperature with water from the HOT tap.

If you have a boiler that the water sits in for any length of time then it's not a great idea.
Our combi boiler doesn't store hot water, it heats it on demand so it's coming in straight from the main supply, like the cold, but taking a quick detour instead =)

 

[LongS]

Lucky you! i do this just incase, so just thought i would add it. Thanks for that justkia!

 

[photoj]

Well things just aren't going my way today. I turned everything off before doing the 70% water change and halfway through i hear a pop. You guessed it.... there goes my heater. Three out of the four fish seem to be doing well. One of the platies is sitting down on the bottom of the tank not doing anything which concerns me. I'm going to do the 50% change now and will let you know how it goes.

Cheers
photoj