Fish Room ( Shed )

[spikeyboy]

Hello.I am looking to convrert my shed into a fishroom at some point next year.The shed is roughly 8ft x 4ft.I will be making sure the insulation is my main priority and will be running a heater to heat shed and an airblower and a couple of flourescent bulbs.

Those who run fishrooms already can you give me a rough idea of how much more electricity costs and what equipment you use.

I don`t want to spend alsorts of money doing it up, then find i cannot afford to run it.

I know this is a bit of a tricky question but any input will be apreciated.

Cheers Spike.

 

[mike os]

that size, well insulated ... about £1-2 a day

 

[rabbut]

Well, running costs depend on how you set it up... It can be done with low running costs in mind, with a 1000W fan heater and build-in thermostat, large air pump and one or two Florescent lamps on the roof with heavy insulation for the costs Mike surgests, or it can be done with low maintanance in mind for about twice that, using a centralised system (How I personally would do it, considering the labour maintanance-wise saving of that system) or you can do it the silly way with individual tanks on individual powerfilters and individual heaters and individual lights for like £10-20 a day... Your call You obviusly can go inbetween any of these set-ups and incur an "in-between" running cost

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Bungy]

Preserving the heat you generate is a major consideration therefore carefull attention to your insulation. Even to the point of leveling off your roof space in your shed that im assuming will be angled - heat rises so no point in it all being up at the top cooling. Include a fan if necessary to circulate the head back down to your tank level - but this will also need lekky so consider a solar powered or wind powered fan.

You will certainly need to link your tanks via a Sump at the bottom. The sump will provide your filtration from a central point, an internal or external pump is then added with sufficient power to lift and circulate your total volume of water around 3 times per hour. You can add overflow and syphon devices to each tank to return the water to the sump but for me the easiest and cheapest way is a simple overflow method which means drilling your tanks with say a 35mm diamond core tile cutter in each top corner (1" away from any edge") equip each tank with a bulkead/tank connector and run your 25mm pipework back to the sump. Your pump will need to be equipped with 22mm pipework to provide the filtered water back to each of your tanks with a flow control on each. You will then have a centralised system with the same water parameters throughout. Additional measures can be added like an additional overflow from your sump to a drain. Your sump may also be drilled in its base to make water changes a little easier. Controlled of course with a tap. You will still however need to "Hoover" up the detritus from each tank as and when needed.

In the UK im afraid we simply dont have the weather to maintain a water barrel at the correct temperature without additional heating however if you heat the fish-house using a thermostatically controlled gas heater this will go a long way to reducing the amount of time your lekky tank heaters kick in and at the same time will go some way to raising the temperature of the water in your barrell which can be used for water changes with adding only a small amount of hot water from your house just to bring it up to the correct temp of your tank water. (Remember of course that you will still need to de-chlorinate the water in your barrell - chlorine will dissipate fairly quickly but Chloramine will remain longer - IM TOLD...)

Good fitting tank lids are also worth paying close attention to. You can help reduce running cost here too by replacing your tank lids with closely fitting glass. These can be in sections with a rubber sucker on so that you can easily lift and slide one over the other for cleaning/netting etc. Your evaporation/humidity levels will also decrease. You can then suspend a strip light that covers several tanks - I use 5' flourecent 70w tubes - you will need to add up the total wattage by using individual tank lights over what a longer single suspended light will use. Planted tanks will need more light but this is food for thought.

I have my missus's tumble drier in my fish-house (hose is fed outside of course) but this creates additional heat, we also have a fridge freezer where the metal grills at the back also provide a bit of heat.

You can go the whole hog and replace your shed roof with clear tripple walled polycarbonate. You will find this dramatically reduces the need for lighting during the day and will on a sunny day give you all the heating you need - thermostatically controlled vents will need to be installed however as on a hot sunny day the heat levels will soar - but this is worth considering.

Im quite sure others will have their own ideas about reducing costs and everyones contribution will help each other - these are just a few of my own suggestions that I have learned through personal experience.

Hope it helps.

Bungy

 

[andywg]

You will certainly need to link your tanks via a Sump at the bottom. The sump will provide your filtration from a central point, an internal or external pump is then added with sufficient power to lift and circulate your total volume of water around 3 times per hour.

Really? Best tell that to CFC and Tolak who both run large fish hosue set ups with a large air pump providing the basis of filtration through sponge and box filters. Much cheaper to run than a sump pump.

 

[rabbut]

^^ snap. For cheap running-costs, air power all the way. For low-maintanance, sumps are wanted.

 

[Bungy]

^^ snap. For cheap running-costs, air power all the way. For low-maintanance, sumps are wanted.

Ok chaps, tell me more about AIR POWER as I may need to re-think my fish house design....

Bungy

 

[rabbut]

You have one killer air pump and then run multiple air lines off it. A large pump can drive filters for over 800g of water for just 60W of power Try that with a sump

Essentially, a large air pump pushes many LPH of air into a usualy thick air pipe that is often then "plumbed" up arround the room, with airline gang valves installed into the main feed pipe. You then run the air line from the gang valve to a box filter and open the gang valve a little to release air into your air pipe to the filter (assuming the air pump is on) to start the filter running. The air is pushed to the bottom of an uplift tube and released into it. The air rises up through the uplift tube, pulling water with it, though filter media, to filter your tank They are best suited to smaller tanks IMO, of upto 30g, but larger filters with multiple uplifts can be used to drive bigger tanks if required

HTH
Rabbut

 

[Bungy]

Rabbut
Thats great advice thank you. Not sure which way to go with this now to be honest. Whilst I aim to reduce running costs as at present im running several tanks all with their own external cannister filtration/heating/lighting and my lekky bill does not make good reading. I need to get these running costs down hence my aim to drill the tanks for simple overflow and use a sump for filtration. IF I go down the AIR route, I would then have to purchase a number of Box and Sponge filters - not sure how running costs compare but a sump pump approx say 55watt against a smaller wattage consumption AIR powered system - how long would I need to run the AIR system to recoup the additional cost of the box filters etc.....food for thought.

With the AIR driven system all filters in each individual tank would require regular cleaning so maintenance my be a bit intensive. I run a couple of 55G Malawi tanks right down to small fry tanks and figured that cleaning the sump filters would be much easier and I can drain the sump for water changes instead of having to do each individual tank. I guess its a trade-off between cost and maintenance - im obviously not clued up with the AIR driven system but for ME i think the sump route is still the most attractive.

Bungy

 

[rabbut]

I wouldn't personally run a 55g on air, but that is just me.

Yes, running costs and maintanance is the trade-off choice to make here. For me, it would be sumps if I created a fish room, as I would want multiple larger tanks for grow-out and keeping of adults for the most, but a few breeding tanks to one side would be air powered. For smaller fish or tanks under 30g, if you have plenty of spare time on your hands at weekends e.t.c, air power is a cheaper option.

How bigger system are you trying to run here?

55W sump pump surgests to me that you are running a smaller system, so it may be cheaper to run off air, especially when you look into UV for a centralised system, to avoid any disease spreading tank-to-tank I don't normaly recomend UV, but on larger/centralised systems, UV is invaluable

Box filters can be DIY'ed at little cost, and take less than a year to pay for themselves on the leccy, of you can buy professional kit and take a couple of years paying back if you don't want the hastle

All the best
Rabbut

 

[andywg]

CFC runs his 200 and his 180 (US) gallon tanks off of air (as well as many other tanks) and the sponge filters cost under a tenner for each tank IIRC. They are not the prettiest of things but work beautifully. If you run with gravel you can use air to run under gravel filters in every tank.

Another useful thing with the air that CFC did is placing the pump up high causing the warmer air up top to be pushed back into the tanks.

The best thing CFC did was spending money on very good insulation. I don't think his heater was even on through late spring to early autumn.

If you want to make maintenance easier then also drill every tank for a drain. Connect each drain to a waste water drain. Then, when doing water changes, all you do is stick the hose in the tank and start filling, water will overflow automatically.

The next step is to get a mains water supply in there and have water trickle feeding into each tank causing a constant water change. Doing this with air driven filters means every tanks is a separate unit and cross contamination is not the worry it can be with a sump based system.

 

[Gun]

"If you want to make maintenance easier then also drill every tank for a drain. Connect each drain to a waste water drain. Then, when doing water changes, all you do is stick the hose in the tank and start filling, water will overflow automatically.

The next step is to get a mains water supply in there and have water trickle feeding into each tank causing a constant water change. Doing this with air driven filters means every tanks is a separate unit and cross contamination is not the worry it can be with a sump based system"

Hi andywg

I must admit, drilling my tanks is tempting me more and more each day. The system above sounds easy enough and also seems it would be very efficient/no water maintenance. I have a few questions you guys could help me with...

How does the water trickle/return to each tank evenly?

What size hole/how high? ....10mm, 1" below strengtheners...?

How would I match the trickle flow rate to the drainage?

Can something be added to stop overflow/flooding..If it may so happen?

 

[andywg]

How does the water trickle/return to each tank evenly?

By the use of valves on the flow from the supply into the tank. For example, connect a ring of mains pipe at 15mm around the room and from that utilise a needle clamp (as comes with RO units) which will allow a 6mm airline to be taken from the mains pipe. These valves allow you to control the level of water flow.

What size hole/how high? ....10mm, 1" below strengtheners...?

I would drill a 35mm hole to take a 25mm pipe bulkhead. Essentially, on a trickle based system anywhere from 1/2" up is good, but I would go with the 25mm as that allows you to use a hose for a change if you so desire. I would drill up towards the top so that the bottom o the pipework is the height the water will be in the tank.

How would I match the trickle flow rate to the drainage?

By placing the hole and drain up high you have it so that the rate of trickle in is the rate of drainage. Imagine a tank with a hole up near the top, but filled so that the water just doesn't quite flow out of said hole. Now start adding water. The water will only flow out at the rate it flows in (unless you open up the flow in to the point more comes in than the hole can cope with). This is the principle for sump systems as well.

Can something be added to stop overflow/flooding..If it may so happen?

Doing it as above means that water will only drain when a supply is connected. If everything stops then nothing happens. For ultra safety you could have two entire drain systems and two holes in each tanks to cover the unlikely event that the drain gets blocked.

 

[Tolak]

I've had the air powered filtration for quite a while, and am a few tanks away from having them all drilled for overflows.

This should give you an idea of how the pvc with pipe valves runs, and what the filtration looks like on a multiple tank setup;

One large air pump runs it all;

For fry tanks I run just a sponge filter, once they get a little bigger I run a box filter with floss at a higher flow for mechanical filtration, and a sponge at low flow for bio filtration. The sponges really don't get that dirty in combination with the box filter, maintenance is easy. Pull out the box filter, toss the floss & add new. WalMart pillow stuffing is dirt cheap.

Another advantage to one large air pump is in the event of a power failure I plug one device into the generator, and the whole fishroom continues being filtered. The biggest problem during a power outage with an often overstocked breeding setup is a rapid drop in O2 levels.

I'm still in the process of setting up the overflows, here's a few setup/prototype pics;

I drain 2-3 gpm with a 3/4" overflow, my water supply wide open is about 7 gpm, divide this between several tanks & the overflows will easily handle it. I've seen setups with timers or drip emitters, I do want to be around when changing water. I'm planning on dividing it into 4 zones, with each zone having similar sized tanks. This will make shutting down tanks easier during the slower summer season, as well as being able to do a full change before my water heater runs out of hot water.

 

[Bungy]

Tolak

Looks good mate, a mixture of both will also provide a backup in the event of failure of one.
My total volume will be approx 1500L including the sump. I intend to drill the sump in two places, one acting as an overflow at the top and another in the base, these two outlets will be connected to a single pipe leading to a water drain outside the kitchen. The base pipe will have a shutoff and will be used to drain the sump as and when required for water changes. All I would need to do is drain and replace approx 25L from the sump on a daily basis - this would be a little over the 10% weekly water change.

I could eventually consider running a feed in from the house, cold water isnt a problem but it would need to be heated and de-chlorinated before being drip-fed into the tanks - I guess I would need to gas heat the fish-house and use a water barrell to provide the drip feed, hopefully then it would be close to the right temp - not sure how I would de-chlorinate the barrell when im out at work all day....? Got any comments?

Bungy