Fish good with high PH

[Jollyroger2]

But aside from letting it run, what everyone is asking is exactly what did you do to cycle the tank? How long has this tank been set up?

I can test my tap water right now and it will be safe for fish based on a test kit. That does not mean I can put my fish in tap water and add some water conditioner. They will be ok for a bit because the water is good.....but it will not stay that way. Without bacteria, ammonia will build fast and all fish will die. You need that bacteria that lives in your filter and on all surfaces of the tank to keep ammonia levels at zero.

Any amount of ammonia reading leads me to believe that this tank may not be cycled. Do you have number results of nitrite and nitrate?

The fish likely did not die from your pH levels. If fish are in the wrong GH or pH levels, they will die over time. Not fast.

What glowlight tetras are we talking about? If you have these guys, they may be wild caught.

The neon colored ones that glow under a blacklight (Glo Tetra) are highly unlikely to be wild caught.

Hey there, no they weren't those ones that glow. I had called the aquarium store back and they insist they were wild caught. Doesn't matter though cause they're all dead.

To answer other questions, the tank cycled about three weeks. Been testing the water every day. Added the Seachem Prime the day I set the tank up with the water, also added a small bottle of Tetra safe start plus before any fish went in.

20 gallon tank.
PH is 7.8 to 8.
Temp is 78 degrees F.
Ammonia is still showing 0 to maybe 0.25 ppm, hard to tell with the colors but I checked in sunlight and it's definitely yellow, looks closer to 0.
Nitrites are 0 and the Nitrates also look like 0, maybe a little towards the 5 ppm color, maybe, again with the coloring it's hard to tell.

Got a water hardness kit a couple days ago, the API KH & GH kit where you add one drop at a time. Here's what I got:

The KH test: Took 11 drops before the water turned to a greenish-yellow. The 12th drop made it a full yellow.
The GH test: Took 5 drops before the water turned from a pale orange to green.

So if I'm reading the chart right, that means my KH is 214.8 ppm and my GH is 89.5 ppm? Does that make sense?

My platys are all still alive but some of them are pretty sluggish, hanging out near the bottom all the time. Others swim around ok.

 

[I nEEd mEnTAl HeLP]

What ammonia source did you use to cycle(sorry if I missed it)?

 

[Jollyroger2]

What ammonia source did you use to cycle(sorry if I missed it)?

Pure ammonia at the start, no dyes, chemicals, anything. 5 or 6 drops I believe.

 

[Byron]

On the GH and KH tests...I find it easier to see the colour change if you look down into the tube when it is sitting a pure white. Add the drop, cap and mix, then remove the cap and look down. I'm not suggesting you did not read these correctly, but this is usually easier to see the change, and the drop that causes the first change even if pale is the one.

GH at 5 dGH is soft water. The platies are not going to do well I'm afraid, they must have mineral in the water and that means a GH of 10 dGH minimum or higher. The pH is fine. The high KH means the pH is not going to change in the aquarium. KH buffers pH and the higher the KH the stronger the buffering capacity. Assuming the test result is correct...11 dKH seems high, but I am not a chemist.

I think the cycling may have been the issue, and it sounds as if the platies are now weakening. Back when you added the bottled ammonia, did you ever see nitrites above zero since?

I am confused over the schedule, perhaps you could clarify for us. The day the tank was first set up, you added Prime, and ammonia? Then three weeks later you added the fish with SafeStart?

 

[DwarfCichlidLvr]

To be clear most captive breed fish (not F1, F2 etc.) but fish that have been bred in the aquarium for generations can tolerate a higher pH and gH. This isn't saying that they wouldn't do better in the type of water they'll find in the wild but they can still thrive, breed, and live as long as they would is kept in their 'ideal' parameters.

 

[Metalhead88]

5dGH = 89.5 which is soft water.

Assuming you didn't do anything drastic, the pH should be under 7.0 and your pH results are likely wrong.

I'm trying hard to follow this all, but lack of detail and order makes things very hard to keep track of.

 

[Jollyroger2]

On the GH and KH tests...I find it easier to see the colour change if you look down into the tube when it is sitting a pure white. Add the drop, cap and mix, then remove the cap and look down. I'm not suggesting you did not read these correctly, but this is usually easier to see the change, and the drop that causes the first change even if pale is the one.

GH at 5 dGH is soft water. The platies are not going to do well I'm afraid, they must have mineral in the water and that means a GH of 10 dGH minimum or higher. The pH is fine. The high KH means the pH is not going to change in the aquarium. KH buffers pH and the higher the KH the stronger the buffering capacity. Assuming the test result is correct...11 dKH seems high, but I am not a chemist.

I think the cycling may have been the issue, and it sounds as if the platies are now weakening. Back when you added the bottled ammonia, did you ever see nitrites above zero since?

I am confused over the schedule, perhaps you could clarify for us. The day the tank was first set up, you added Prime, and ammonia? Then three weeks later you added the fish with SafeStart?

I did that with the GH and KH tests, set up a white towel on our kitchen island and looked straight down in. Followed the instructions to the letter. Again, this isn't my first rodeo with fish. Had a 60 gallon tank for many years but have been out of the hobby for about ten years. Never had these kinds of issues before.

I never saw nitrites above 0. The tank about a week in got cloudy which I assumed was the emergence of the bacteria. Tested the water every day, maybe every other day with the kids, but never saw the nitrites or nitrates above 0. Any safe ideas to raise the hardness of the water so they're more comfortable? I've read a calcium stone would be good, but would that cause the PH to go up even more?

Yes added the Prime (Prime was first) after the water went in and then the ammonia 2-3 hours later, had to search for pure ammonia. The Safe Start went in a couple weeks later, probably a week or so before the fish. It was the small bottle for 20 gal max size.

 

[Jollyroger2]

5dGH = 89.5 which is soft water.

Assuming you didn't do anything drastic, the pH should be under 7.0 and your pH results are likely wrong.

I'm trying hard to follow this all, but lack of detail and order makes things very hard to keep track of.

I've tested the PH every day, it's not wrong unless the kit is wrong. The regular PH test hit the blue "max out" color, so I used the high end PH test and have been getting 7.8 to 8. I even had the water tested by both Petsmart and the aquarium-only store which also came up with 7.8 on two separate tests a week apart.

Not sure what you mean by lack of detail, I've given the readings as precise as I could get them.

 

[Byron]

es added the Prime (Prime was first) after the water went in and then the ammonia 2-3 hours later, had to search for pure ammonia. The Safe Start went in a couple weeks later, probably a week or so before the fish. It was the small bottle for 20 gal max size.

Do not use Prime when cycling, unless there are fish in the tank during the cycling. This conditioner is known to interact and cause issues. Also, without fish present, you don't need it. This might have made the test results uncertain. Some members here have a better chemistry knowledge of this issue so I will leave it, but bear this in mind. Don't use Prime except at a water change with fish in the tank, and once you are through this I would recommend a different conditioner.

The Safe Start is a bacterial supplement that is "seeding" the nitrifying bacteria. Follow the instructions on the bottle and you'll be fine. But don't use Prime with it.

Any safe ideas to raise the hardness of the water so they're more comfortable? I've read a calcium stone would be good, but would that cause the PH to go up even more?

First, there are soft water fish (tetras, rasboras, catfish, gourami, etc) that will always be healthier in soft water like you have. Then there are fish that must have harder water...all the livebearers for example; you can harden the water to provide what these fish need, but then you are sacrificing the soft water fish that will be healthier with the water as it is.

The other thing is that making water hard is relatively easy but it is involved. Water for every water change needs to be "prepared" outside the tank and then added. You can buy mineral salts (Rift Lake salt mixes) to do this, that may get expensive. Of you can use a substrate of aragonite sand which is permanent. However, the GH will go up, and the pH may as well. I'm not sure what the KH may do with these processes, when I did this I only measured GH and pH because both were very low (GH 0, KH 0 and pH was 5.0) so it didn't matter.

 

[Jollyroger2]

Do not use Prime when cycling, unless there are fish in the tank during the cycling. This conditioner is known to interact and cause issues. Also, without fish present, you don't need it. This might have made the test results uncertain. Some members here have a better chemistry knowledge of this issue so I will leave it, but bear this in mind. Don't use Prime except at a water change with fish in the tank, and once you are through this I would recommend a different conditioner.

The Safe Start is a bacterial supplement that is "seeding" the nitrifying bacteria. Follow the instructions on the bottle and you'll be fine. But don't use Prime with it.



First, there are soft water fish (tetras, rasboras, catfish, gourami, etc) that will always be healthier in soft water like you have. Then there are fish that must have harder water...all the livebearers for example; you can harden the water to provide what these fish need, but then you are sacrificing the soft water fish that will be healthier with the water as it is.

The other thing is that making water hard is relatively easy but it is involved. Water for every water change needs to be "prepared" outside the tank and then added. You can buy mineral salts (Rift Lake salt mixes) to do this, that may get expensive. Of you can use a substrate of aragonite sand which is permanent. However, the GH will go up, and the pH may as well. I'm not sure what the KH may do with these processes, when I did this I only measured GH and pH because both were very low (GH 0, KH 0 and pH was 5.0) so it didn't matter.

Maybe it's the store then, since I went with glowlight tetras first and they all died within a couple days. They should have been fine in soft water. I went to an aquarium only store that was recommended by a couple coworkers, has good google ratings and very impressive inside, vs. a Petco or Petsmart for the fish which would have been cheaper. I can't figure out what the issue is since it doesn't seem to be the water.

Thanks for the suggestions, I may just have to do a one-species tank with fish that like the softer water.

 

[Byron]

Thanks for the suggestions, I may just have to do a one-species tank with fish that like the softer water.

You're welcome. I am offline momentarily, maybe tomorrow something else will jump out at me. But absolutely, selecting fish suited to your water makes their lives and yours so much easier. I change 60-70% of my tanks water every week, and have for 20 years. I hate to think what I would do if I had to prepare water, I had 8 tanks, five now since I moved and downsized, but it is a lot of work.

 

[Jollyroger2]

You're welcome. I am offline momentarily, maybe tomorrow something else will jump out at me. But absolutely, selecting fish suited to your water makes their lives and yours so much easier. I change 60-70% of my tanks water every week, and have for 20 years. I hate to think what I would do if I had to prepare water, I had 8 tanks, five now since I moved and downsized, but it is a lot of work.

Hi there, checking in again. Lost two of the platys last month but the other three are doing much better, much more active, hungry all the time, etc. They're the only fish in a 20 gallon tank right now, two females and a male.

Been doing 50% water changes couple times a week since mid-May. Did full water tests again today and this is where I'm at:

PH is still in the 8.2 range
Ammonia I can't shake. Still pale green in the test tube, 0.50 to 1.0 ppm. Again been changing the water, sweeping the gravel, etc. Been adding some things like Prime and Life Essence so not sure if that's making it show ammonia. Like I said the platys have really gotten more energetic and I've been getting these ammonia readings for weeks so they aren't dying from it.
Nitrites are 0. Nitrates are 0-5.0 ppm. Orangish-yellowish color.
The KH took 12 drops to change the color in the tube. So it's either 12 dkh or 214.8 ppm.
The GH took 6-7 drops to fully change the color so say 7 dkh or 125.3 ppm.

We also had an algae explosion about a week ago, brown stuff all over everything. We cleaned the gravel and decorations during a water change.

My daughter wants to get some more fish, we were thinking mollies or something simple. Is this water ok to put more fish into?

 

[Byron]

My daughter wants to get some more fish, we were thinking mollies or something simple. Is this water ok to put more fish into?

Your water is much too soft for mollies, or even other livebearers. They willnot last. Please, do not get mollies.

I don't know anything about Life Essence, di da search and it came up about human vitamins.