Fish dead after water change

[Callisto405]

I bought 4 food safe 5gallon buckets with lids. Fill them with water then add my Seachems Prime + a little bit extra. Then I airate the water for an hour. Then cap the bucket for storage till the next change. I have 6 tanks so it doesn't sit more than a couple days.

 

[itiwhetu]

Why do people use the dechlorinator plus some extra. I know from my experience in horticulture people tend to do this with spray as well. The quantity that is required is all that is required, adding extra is just wasteful. It can also contribute to things going wrong. Remember fish live in water not a chemical soup.

 

[Callisto405]

Why do people use the dechlorinator plus some extra. I know from my experience in horticulture people tend to do this with spray as well. The quantity that is required is all that is required, adding extra is just wasteful. It can also contribute to things going wrong. Remember fish live in water not a chemical soup.

How do you know your water treatment plant didn't use extra chlorine or chloramine in their last treatment. The extra is to make sure the dose works in the presences of more than anticipated toxins in the water. 3/4 of a mil of conditioner per 5 gallons is not a chemical soup.

 

[kwi]

How do you know your water treatment plant didn't use extra chlorine or chloramine in their last treatment. The extra is to make sure the dose works in the presences of more than anticipated toxins in the water. 3/4 of a mil of conditioner per 10 gallons is not a chemical soup.

Water companies are only meant to dose chlorine until a certain amount of free chlorine is present, and this should be in a certain range, if there is extra dosage that pushes this upwards it will be by an amount that a "little extra" won't cover.

 

[kwi]

I know from my experience in horticulture people tend to do this with spray as well.

I am a licensed pesticide user, pesticide dose rates are usually given as a maximum litres per hectare and I usually dose to about 2/3rds the max and then round up to an easily remembered number for refilling the tank, still well within the maximum permissable amonts.

 

[itiwhetu]

How can 0.75 milliliters of something disperse itself into 20 000 millliters, effectively or quickly. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[kwi]

How can 0.75 milliliters of something disperse itself into 20 000 millliters, effectively or quickly. It doesn't make sense to me.

Brownian motion.........

 

[itiwhetu]

I am a licensed pesticide user, pesticide dose rates are usually given as a maximum litres per hectare and I usually dose to about 2/3rds the max and then round up to an easily remembered number for refilling the tank, still well within the maximum permissable amonts.

You are using your chemicals responsibly. I also use herbicides commercially and use the same sort of formula. It concerns me when people go above the maximum recommended dosages.

 

[kwi]

You are using your chemicals responsibly. I also use herbicides commercially and use the same sort of formula. It concerns me when people go above the maximum recommended dosages.

It's part of the code of best practice, it also means if you have a slight overspray you're not overdosing the land. Some of this stuff can only be used once a year. We're now meant to show your licence when purchasing the commercial grade stuff but there are still places will send it out to you through the post.......
The new oil based stuff is interesting, premixed chemicals and pre-calibrated applicators, still need the relevent certs though.

 

[itiwhetu]

It's part of the code of best practice, it also means if you have a slight overspray you're not overdosing the land. Some of this stuff can only be used once a year. We're now meant to show your licence when purchasing the commercial grade stuff but there are still places will send it out to you through the post.......
The new oil based stuff is interesting, premixed chemicals and pre-calibrated applicators, still need the relevent certs though.

We are highly regulated here as well. And need certificates to spray anything in commercial quantities. I think it is a good thing, in the past there have been way to many cowboys out there destroying the land.

 

[kwi]

We are highly regulated here as well. And need certificates to spray anything in commercial quantities. I think it is a good thing, in the past there have been way to many cowboys out there destroying the land.

I done my course with a guy who couldn't get his head around the calibration of dose rates, he thought the labels would state how many ml of product to put in a 20lt knapsack sprayer........he failed, our employer still let him spray..........

 

[A Fish Named Sue]

@Callisto405 I like your point about the fact that the chlorine in the water could not have killed the zebra instantly...

I think that the fish were maybe stressed in the FIRST PLACE for whatever reason, and the water change and your arm being in there just set them off...

DISCLAIMER: I am not by any means an expert

but I have been in the hobby for about 6 years, ANYWAYS!

This is a tough call, I think the Nitrates and maybe other things had them agreed to begin with maybe...

Good luck with everything I know this may not be the BEST answer/advice but I hope I have at least helped a little bit lol

Best of luck,
A Fish Named Sue

 

[Colin_T]

Why do people use the dechlorinator plus some extra. I know from my experience in horticulture people tend to do this with spray as well. The quantity that is required is all that is required, adding extra is just wasteful. It can also contribute to things going wrong. Remember fish live in water not a chemical soup.

There's a big difference between carcinogenic chemicals like herbicides that kill people and animals, and a couple of drops of dechlorinator that usually consists of sodium thiosulphate, which people can drink and not die from.

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Water companies are only meant to dose chlorine until a certain amount of free chlorine is present, and this should be in a certain range, if there is extra dosage that pushes this upwards it will be by an amount that a "little extra" won't cover.

They don't always get it right. Remember, there are plenty of stupid people out there working in jobs that have hazardous materials.

Personally, I used to add the stated amount of dechlorinator and then add a couple of extra drops to water that I was holding. When I managed to get a chlorine test kit, I also used to measure the chlorine levels every week before adding dechlorinator. There were plenty of times I had to double and even triple dose my tap water with dechlorinator due to the excessive chlorine levels caused by stupidity at the water corporation.

If the OP has chloramine, that usually requires a higher dose of dechlorinator compared to chlorine. Most dechlorinators have one dose for chlorine and a double dose for chloramine.

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I bought 4 food safe 5gallon buckets with lids. Fill them with water then add my Seachems Prime + a little bit extra. Then I airate the water for an hour. Then cap the bucket for storage till the next change. I have 6 tanks so it doesn't sit more than a couple days.

If you use a dechlorinator that neutralises chloramine and binds to free ammonia to make it harmless for a short time, you should add this dechlorinator to the tap water on the same day you use the water.

If you dechlorinate and aerate the water, then let it sit for a few days, the part of the dechlorinator that has bound to the ammonia can separate from the ammonia and it is no longer safe. You end up with toxic ammonia in the aquarium water, which gets used by the filter bacteria and converted to nitrate.

The filter bacteria will use the free ammonia pretty quickly (usually within an hour), but if the pH of the tank water is high (above 7.0), the ammonia can harm the fish.

 

[Callisto405]

Water companies are only meant to dose chlorine until a certain amount of free chlorine is present, and this should be in a certain range, if there is extra dosage that pushes this upwards it will be by an amount that a "little extra" won't cover.
[/QUOTE]

There's a big difference between carcinogenic chemicals like herbicides that kill people and animals, and a couple of drops of dechlorinator that usually consists of sodium thiosulphate, which people can drink and not die from.

---------------------

They don't always get it right. Remember, there are plenty of stupid people out there working in jobs that have hazardous materials.

Personally, I used to add the stated amount of dechlorinator and then add a couple of extra drops to water that I was holding. When I managed to get a chlorine test kit, I also used to measure the chlorine levels every week before adding dechlorinator. There were plenty of times I had to double and even triple dose my tap water with dechlorinator due to the excessive chlorine levels caused by stupidity at the water corporation.

If the OP has chloramine, that usually requires a higher dose of dechlorinator compared to chlorine. Most dechlorinators have one dose for chlorine and a double dose for chloramine.

---------------------

If you use a dechlorinator that neutralises chloramine and binds to free ammonia to make it harmless for a short time, you should add this dechlorinator to the tap water on the same day you use the water.

If you dechlorinate and aerate the water, then let it sit for a few days, the part of the dechlorinator that has bound to the ammonia can separate from the ammonia and it is no longer safe. You end up with toxic ammonia in the aquarium water, which gets used by the filter bacteria and converted to nitrate.

The filter bacteria will use the free ammonia pretty quickly (usually within an hour), but if the pH of the tank water is high (above 7.0), the ammonia can harm the fish.

Makes sense. I'll just reverse my process. Aerate then dose. Great advice.

So if I aerate it first then let it sit with the lid off for a couple days, theoretically much of the chlorine will already have evaporated off. The regular dose should be more than enough to make it safe?

 

[Colin_T]

You are in Florida and have chloramine in the tap water, aeration won't get rid of it. If you only had chlorine then aerating would get rid of it but chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia. They bind together and stay together even when exposed to vigorous aeration. The only way to break the chlorine ammonia bond is to add a dechlorinator. Then the chloramine molecules separate and the chlorine will be neutralised or aerated out of the water, and the ammonia is left behind. The ammonia gets temporarily converted (for about 24 hours) into a non toxic form of ammonia by the dechlorinator.

Your best bet is to make the water up on the day you are going to clean the tank. Fill the buckets with tap water, add the amount of dechlorinator that is required for the water in the individual buckets. Let them aerate while you clean the tank and gravel. Then remove the airstone from the buckets and add the bucket/s of dechlorinated water to the tank.

If the tap water is really cold (unlikely in Florida), you could have the buckets of water in the kitchen or loungeroom overnight to warm up a bit, and then dechlorinate and aerate them on the day you do the water changes.