First Time Salty ~370L

[drsquirrel]

Freshwater: Is that meant to be a statement?

Surely a fishless cycle with ammonia(pure ammonia, 9.5%, from a bottle) in a saltwater tank is okay?

 

[seffieuk]

We have no need to put ammonia in our tanks for a cycle, the live rock naturally does the work and if it doesn't then it means the rock is already cycled. However in a freshwater/fishless cycle you need to add the ammonia as there is no natural source

Seffie x

 

[drsquirrel]

Okay I seem to have gotten myself in a tissy.

I realise there is a certain amount of die off on the rock when moving it, which provides the ammonia to feed the bacterial cycle.

Though in my research I have come across the addition of ammonia in the fishless cycle, and I mean specifically with salt water (I already know it's used in freshwater for your reasoning above).

So that is why I had been adding it.

Also, once the cycle has complete the bacteria still needs a source of a ammonia, so if fish are not ready to go in yet (even if the cycle is complete) then ammonia is needed surely? (I do realise I am not at this stage yet anyway).



I think for now, as I have a Nitrite spike, which I didn't have previously, I will stop feeding ammonia and wait until ammonia/nitrite drop and then do my water change.

 

[seffieuk]

That sounds good to me, stop adding the ammonia - when I kept live rock in a tank for a while without fish I used to put some flake food in once a week (after the cycle)

Seffie x

 

[drsquirrel]

Food is what I would use (inc fresh) because I found it hard to get ammonia.


I've sorted my light and powerhead lighting, not perfectly tidy yet, will sort the paths once the skimmer is in (I will just install it without silicone sealing if I haven't managed to get out to get some by time the cycle has finished).

One thing I am having a pain with, is the power heads constantly cause the sand to shift, and I find really deep sections vs almost bare glass, and I find most of the time I am trying to point the power heads to stop this rather than consideration of flow around the rock.

 

[drsquirrel]

Quick update.

Still mainly waiting for Nitrites to come down.

I (after dismantling my rock scape) tried to rescape and it was a nightmare, nothing sat where I wanted it to and nothing looked great. Currently I am sporting the "just a bunch of rocks" scaping method, which isn't *that* bad really, although 2 peices are too close to the ruddy glass and I cannot clean there and need to move the top stuff around.

Skimmer is running and pulling out a little bit of scum, running it towards being "wet" for now as there isn't really much for it to remove. Still noisy as per issues in my other thread.

Finally got my activated carbon, with along with phosphate remover is just sat in a bag under my skimmer output.

Bit of algae on the sand, slightly reddish, so I assume this other stuff is cyno rather than diatomes?

After all this time of having the rock I am still finding something new, last night I saw a crap crawl back into a hole, legs were sticking out for a while but couldn't find my red light so used a dim torch to have a quick nose so it totally hid.

Also found a large bristle star, luckily not the green one (I have the name of what I have, but not to hand).

Installed 3 small basic blue LED strips for "moon lighting". Really shows up some bright red parts, and the coral is a nice green.

Replaced my single timers with a 3 output unit which will cover 2x ballasts + 1x night LED adaptor (350mA for all 3 so using 1 adaptor).

Added a temperature controller, I don't trust the thermostats in the heaters. Cooling is just a clip on fan. Running but not yet mounted until I can get a project box.

I put a 200micron filter sock over the DIY stocking, will be able to see how much the stocking was letting through compared to

I've not added anything to the DSB/Fuge section yet - undecided on what exactly I want to run in there.

Added a ball valve in the sump feed, basically to slow it down as much as is safe so it pulls through less air. Sound from the durso is okay, air in the sump is a pain. Although I will in time adjust the way the pipe enters the sump, which is made easier when I can stop the feed and remove the pipe from the one side.

 

[drsquirrel]

Tests from yesterday.

19th July 2010 19:46

Temperature 27.1c Sump (Room Temp = 22.7c)
Salinity 1.027 (topped it up just after I tested it)
pH 8.0/8.1 I hate these tests
PO4/Phosphate 0 (high sens)
NH4/Ammonia 0.25
NO2/Nitrite 0

Nitrite has totally gone, although have a little ammonia still showing up - although I don't trust the kit read I would rather be safe and say this as it definitely had a yellow tinge to it regardless of comparing it on the card.


Anyone know a good enough alternative for salifert tests? I don't like the vials they use and I know its important that the widths etc that they are used.




I still need to decide what I will do in the empty sump chamber. DSB or Not, and what type of algae - any suggestions either way?

 

[Morri]

If you are going to add a DSB it needs to be at least 6" deep pref a little more alternatly Miracle Mud bed of 1" with some calpera or chaeto

 

[drsquirrel]

The left over ~16kg of aragonite I have is coarse so I will need to buy new sand/mud. MM is a bit expensive, and needs to be replaced so will just have to get more sand.

DSB + Cheato it is then.

 

[Morri]

Make sure you pick a nice fine sand to make a DSB as effective as possible may be worth asking your LFS for a bag of dirty sand from them as it will kick start yours make sure the dirty sand goes in before clean sand

 

[drsquirrel]

I don't really like my "marine" LFS that much, will give them a try though.



I'm not sure if the fine(r) sand I have is fine enough, this is my previous in the image (included coarse for comparison as the images probably don't help much anyway).

Is a good price too "Coral Sand 20kg (Sack)" (top result on G, £17/20kg)




The grain size of mine is around 1mm. Looking at various 0.1-1mm and 0.5-1mm now, oolite etc.



Just trying to figure out how much I will need, I think the area is around 50x40cm at a depth of 6inches (say 16cm) this is 32L of water (or 32kg of water), assuming sand is denser or around the same - 32kg of sand?

Anyone got a better estimate?

 

[drsquirrel]

Better calculations put it at 21.5L of volume of sand (for 16cm). Max I can have is 20cm before I reach the bubble trap.


Did another test today...
NH4/Ammonia 0.25

I didn't test the Nitrites etc, I would have if Ammonia showed 0.


But, I am not happy with it - The Salifert tests are just too hard to read.

With the Ammonia test, the vial is always cloudly, and it makes it hard to compare at the low end if its white or not. To be on the safe side I read slightly higher, I just look to see if I can see any yellow tinge in it but as normal it varies on light.

The vials are washed in RO water.

Anyone suggest another kit? I'm probably going to take a water sample to my LFS tomorrow to double check with them.

Also - just thinking about it, im going to test for NH4 in some RO water...


/EDIT: Forget that, just tested RO - totally clear.

0 Nitrites and 0.25 Ammonia - not unheard of right?


Nitrites peaked then dropped so technically the cycle is complete right? (tank itself not ready for livestock obviously with the Ammonia).




Is it worth doing a water change now, as the NO3/Nitrates are rather high (high as in, im not sure that a ~220L will drop it enough) and will help remove some of the excess Ammonia - thoughts?

 

[drsquirrel]

Talking to myself


Just had a thought on DSB + Cheato.

DSB max depth is 20cm before it reaches the return pump bubble trap. Say we keep thte 6inches (16cm) DSB depth. That leaves 4cm for algae, well say another 4cm for water level (I have it above the bubble trap of course). But the max height I want it overall is 28cm as that is the baffle height on the left that I want the level to stay static so the "noise" doesn't change from the air being pulled from the display tank. So lets say 26cm, that is 10cm for algae - enough? Seems a bit pitiful to me. (I'd have to consider putting some kind of netting over the bubble trap yea?).

What if I separate the compartment into a front and back with a new baffle and run a slightly smaller DSB in that, and Cheato in the front?

Actually here is a 3D drawing of my sump.



Section 1: Filter sock on pipe, Filter floss at the bottom (this will have 1 heater later)
Section 2: Skimmer+Pump, Activated Carbon, Phosphate Remover
Section 3: Empty (temporary housing 2 heaters)
Section 4: Return Pump (this will have 1 heater later)

 

[seffieuk]

Nitrites peaked then dropped so technically the cycle is complete right? Have you had your nitrate spike?

Is it worth doing a water change now, as the NO3/Nitrates are rather high (high as in, im not sure that a ~220L will drop it enough) and will help remove some of the excess Ammonia - thoughts?
Ah, I see you have, then yes, do a big water change and then test again in 24 hours.

re the salifert tests - i dont find them difficult to read, a pain to administer some of them, drip, drip

 

[drsquirrel]

Starting to gather some RO water now.

I decided to buy 2x 110L food safe bins. I only really want ~100L (being 20%) for my "regular" water changes, and didn't think getting a 110+220 made sense. Having 2 means I need 2 heaters/2 power heads spare but I just so happen to have that.

RO Water in tonight, should take most of the night, I have to get up a few times in the night so can check on it. It can also naturally acclimatise (as much as possible) to room temp.
When I return home tomorrow I will put the salt/ph/heaters in and do most of the extra heating over the next night to use the cheaper leccy I'm not that skint but why not





Timer (decided to wire a multi unit in to keep it tidy).
Temp Controller
Filter Sock
Blue LED for "moon lighting"