First post here- Betta is lethargic, not eating

[llamaintheroom]

I've done lots of posts on another forum so now I've come here bc I'm lost at what I should do. I apologize if I've posted this in the wrong area but I really need help for my fish.

I've had my male betta for 2+ years in a 6-gallon tank with a nerite. This past 3 or so months he's been lethargic, barely eating but it's gotten worse these past few days. When this first started he would sleep in weird positions and now I'll find him almost under pieces of decor. I'll do water changes if the ammonia is anything about 0 (but not excessively). However, even when nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia are 0 nothing has changed. ~5 days ago he seemed to get better but I had to leave town for a family emergency and now it's worse. He used to at least randomly bolt up to the top then bolt down but he hasn't done that in a while.

A couple of weeks ago, for a couple of weeks, there was a protein film on the top of my tank that I would see when I woke up, stopped filling the tank so much and that seemed to help. Temperature is close to/within 0.2 of 78 F. I did move the tank to my desk from a table farther from my desk (near a window) .... but idk if that matters. I try to put vacation pellets in there to feed him.

Sorry for a "messy" post. I didn't want to forget anything and it's getting late but I wanted to post before I forgot. Thank you in advance.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Don't use holiday feeders, they aren't necessary and often cause water quality problems.

Post some pictures of the fish and tank.

Is there a filter on the tank?
How often and how do you clean the filter?

How often do you do water changes and how much do you change?

What do you feed the fish and how often do you feed it?

---------------------
The fish could be getting old or the tank could be dirty. It could be suffering from malnutrition.

Try doing a 75% water chnage and gravel clean every day for a week.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Add some frozen or live food to its diet. Raw/ cooked prawn/ shrimp is good. Mozzies and mozzie larvae, brineshrimp, daphnia, mysis shrimp, bloodworms and aphids are worth feeding to the fish. Offer different foods each day and try to build the fish up physically. It might help.

 

[llamaintheroom]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Don't use holiday feeders, they aren't necessary and often cause water quality problems.

Post some pictures of the fish and tank.

Is there a filter on the tank?
How often and how do you clean the filter?

How often do you do water changes and how much do you change?

What do you feed the fish and how often do you feed it?

---------------------
The fish could be getting old or the tank could be dirty. It could be suffering from malnutrition.

Try doing a 75% water chnage and gravel clean every day for a week.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Add some frozen or live food to its diet. Raw/ cooked prawn/ shrimp is good. Mozzies and mozzie larvae, brineshrimp, daphnia, mysis shrimp, bloodworms and aphids are worth feeding to the fish. Offer different foods each day and try to build the fish up physically. It might help.

Thank you for your response.
I have an aqueon quietflow filter. I just changed the cartridge about two weeks ago. I'm about to change the ammonia filter (I'm not too great at that so do it about every month as well). I try to do water changes about every week and it's about a quarter of the tank. I feed him either tetra "tropical granules" or tetra "bettamin" small pellets (just got these when he started to get sick. I attached a picture, might not be too great quality and the decor/look of my tank is kind of ugly but I'm a busy college student who only has time to take care of what my fish needs not necessarily what looks pretty.

Does freeze dried get the same effect as frozen/live? I don't have a speciality fish store nearby, closest is a petco. https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/omega-one-freeze-dried-brine-shrimp. When I go home in two weekends, I might be able to get something live. How should I feed it to him? I'm worried he won't see it.

Could this be old age? I got him December 2019 so he doesn't seem that old.
Thank youuuuu!

 

[llamaintheroom]

Also, would giving him antibiotics or antifungals do any harm if it's not the cause? I'm thinking of doing it as a "just in case" deal.

 

[Colin_T]

Don't use medications unless you know what the problem is.
Improper use and mis-use of antibiotics has lead to drug resistant bacteria that kill people, birds, fish, animals and reptiles. Antibiotics should only be used on known bacterial infections that have not responded to normal treatments.

Anti-fungal medications contain toxic chemicals that if used correctly, kill fungus without killing the fish. However, all chemicals are harmful to fish and other animals, and whilst the fish may not die from the treatment, there can be long term side effects that occur some time later.

------------------------
Freeze dried foods are similar to flake or pellet foods. Frozen or live foods usually give better results.

------------------------
Do not replace the filter media/ materials/ pads. These contain beneficial bacteria that help keep the water clean. If you get rid of the media, you get rid of the good bacteria and can have problems with ammonia and nitrite, both of which can quickly kill fish or make them sick.

If you have ammonia removing granules in a filter pad, get rid of them and put a sponge in its place.

Filter sponges and media should be washed out in a bucket of aquarium water, and the filter media re-used. The bucket of dirty water can be poured on the lawn.

The only time the filter media should be replaced is when it starts to fall apart. Then the media can be replaced with sponges but only replace one piece of media at a time and wait a couple of months before replacing any more media.

Because you replace the media, it's possible the fish is suffering from ammonia or nitrite poisoning. If you have a test kit, you can check this for yourself. You can also take a glass full of tank water to a pet shop and ask them to test it for you.

If you don't have a test kit and can't get to a pet shop, change 75% of the tank water every day for a week. See if the fish improves. If it does improve, then the issue is probably ammonia and or nitrite poisoning. If this is the case, keep doing a 75% water change every day or two for a month and reduce feeding to 3 times a week. After a month the filter should be working and you can do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate once a week, and increase feeding to once or twice a day.

 

[llamaintheroom]

Thanks again.

I'll try to see if there is anywhere I can get live/frozen food for him.
The filters I'm talking about are these and these? So you're saying these are bad and I should switch to one of those round sponge filters or not replace them? For the larger one, I was instructed by a petco employee to stuff both the new and old one in there for a day or two to allow the bacteria to swap over, so I've been doing that if it matters.
I'll try to get a water testing kit but they're so dang expensive (( but it's worth it. I'm worried about doing too many water changes and stressing him out???

Thank you for answering my questions. Even w/ having him for two years I feel like a newbie so I'm still trying to learn the art of fish keeping )

 

[Colin_T]

I can't view those links on my computer

If you have filter pads, you can get sponges for different brands of filter and use scissors to cut the sponge so it fits into your filter. I use AquaClear sponges but there are lots of other brands you can use too. Just find a filter sponge that is slightly bigger than the filter pad and cut it down and put that in your filter.

It takes a month or so for the bacteria to colonise new filter media even if you have the old filter pad and new filter pads next to each other. So putting them in the filter together is fine but they have to be next to each other (touching) for a month before there is sufficient bacteria on the new pad.

-----------------------
Water changes are less stressful to the fish than toxic water. Most fish are fine with big daily water changes and if there is a water quality issue (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) or something else in the water, then big daily water changes will help dilute the harmful substance and make it safer for the fish.

The main thing with water changes is to leave the fish in the tank and carefully syphon out 50-75% of the old tank water. Pour it on the lawn and top up the tank with dechlorinated water.

 

[Essjay]

Colin, the first link is to a sort of sponge which says it removes ammonia and needs changing every 2 to 3 weeks. Possibly zeolite or something similar in a sponge like matrix. The second is to a typical cartridge filled with carbon granules.


The ammonia remover will get full so it has to be changed before that, forever. It is much cheaper to use bacteria to remove the ammonia made by the fish. But the bacteria can only grow if they have food - ammonia - and the medium removes ammonia so you won't have many bacteria. If you remove the media you may well find you have an ammonia spike, followed a couple of weeks later by a nitrite spike. Test every day and do a water change if either ammonia or nitrite read above zero.
Adding Dr Tim's One & Only or Tetra Safe Start may well speed things up, as will adding live plants. I can see a plant in the phot in post #3 but if that's the only plant it won't be enough. Floating plants are the best type for ammonia removal. And plants don't turn ammonia into nitrite.

 

[llamaintheroom]

I can't view those links on my computer

If you have filter pads, you can get sponges for different brands of filter and use scissors to cut the sponge so it fits into your filter. I use AquaClear sponges but there are lots of other brands you can use too. Just find a filter sponge that is slightly bigger than the filter pad and cut it down and put that in your filter.

It takes a month or so for the bacteria to colonise new filter media even if you have the old filter pad and new filter pads next to each other. So putting them in the filter together is fine but they have to be next to each other (touching) for a month before there is sufficient bacteria on the new pad.

-----------------------
Water changes are less stressful to the fish than toxic water. Most fish are fine with big daily water changes and if there is a water quality issue (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) or something else in the water, then big daily water changes will help dilute the harmful substance and make it safer for the fish.

The main thing with water changes is to leave the fish in the tank and carefully syphon out 50-75% of the old tank water. Pour it on the lawn and top up the tank with dechlorinated water.

I'm sorry, I'm confused on what you mean by filter pads. A commenter below kind of described what I have or these might work?
https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...YW9afwVRgpG04tlmkshoCoyYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...FLHXFGoR35OabiFysVRoC154QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I'm looking into just getting a basic round sponge filter. I've been wanting to switch over to those anyway so hopefully I can get it established in the next day or two. How do I allow the bacteria to move over? Should I have both filters running at once for a few days?

 

[llamaintheroom]

Colin, the first link is to a sort of sponge which says it removes ammonia and needs changing every 2 to 3 weeks. Possibly zeolite or something similar in a sponge like matrix. The second is to a typical cartridge filled with carbon granules.


The ammonia remover will get full so it has to be changed before that, forever. It is much cheaper to use bacteria to remove the ammonia made by the fish. But the bacteria can only grow if they have food - ammonia - and the medium removes ammonia so you won't have many bacteria. If you remove the media you may well find you have an ammonia spike, followed a couple of weeks later by a nitrite spike. Test every day and do a water change if either ammonia or nitrite read above zero.
Adding Dr Tim's One & Only or Tetra Safe Start may well speed things up, as will adding live plants. I can see a plant in the phot in post #3 but if that's the only plant it won't be enough. Floating plants are the best type for ammonia removal. And plants don't turn ammonia into nitrite.

Thank you for your response!
Should I completely remove the ammonia filter and not put another one back in?
I'll admit that when he got sick a couple of times I added the live bacteria from a LFS, but it was expired. Does expired live bacteria still help get more in?
I have two plants, but probably not enough tbh. I took out some of the decor in case some of the paint was coming off and bothering him.
Thanks again!

 

[llamaintheroom]

I'm sorry, I'm confused on what you mean by filter pads. A commenter below kind of described what I have or these might work?
https/www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/aqueon-replacement-filter-cartridges-medium-pack-of-3-1083775?cm_mmc=PSH|GGL|CAL|SBU05|SH14|0|xabaFvp7YgCVYPPfaNHrKc|58700007475749273|PRODUCT_GROUP|0|0|pla-1455869372366|129523121016|15114789020&gclid=CjwKCAjwxZqSBhAHEiwASr9n9NvGeRAHiSt0mCL1jX2-I_ZsEWfB6DOfeQqYW9afwVRgpG04tlmkshoCoyYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds https/www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/aqueon-ammonia-cartridge-mini-pad-10-2812512?cm_mmc=PSH|GGL|CAL|SBU05|SH14|0|oZ4AgFePb8PMQF6cfeZNnh|58700007475749834|PRODUCT_GROUP|0|0|pla-1457221079255|127865324094|15104991825&gclid=CjwKCAjwxZqSBhAHEiwASr9n9EhcUgaBwl9WowqIMkKDtCPtJLzaJv0joi4FLHXFGoR35OabiFysVRoC154QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I'm looking into just getting a basic round sponge filter. I've been wanting to switch over to those anyway so hopefully I can get it established in the next day or two. How do I allow the bacteria to move over? Should I have both filters running at once for a few days?

I can't view those links on my computer

If you have filter pads, you can get sponges for different brands of filter and use scissors to cut the sponge so it fits into your filter. I use AquaClear sponges but there are lots of other brands you can use too. Just find a filter sponge that is slightly bigger than the filter pad and cut it down and put that in your filter.

It takes a month or so for the bacteria to colonise new filter media even if you have the old filter pad and new filter pads next to each other. So putting them in the filter together is fine but they have to be next to each other (touching) for a month before there is sufficient bacteria on the new pad.

-----------------------
Water changes are less stressful to the fish than toxic water. Most fish are fine with big daily water changes and if there is a water quality issue (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) or something else in the water, then big daily water changes will help dilute the harmful substance and make it safer for the fish.

The main thing with water changes is to leave the fish in the tank and carefully syphon out 50-75% of the old tank water. Pour it on the lawn and top up the tank with dechlorinated water.

Also, if I get the aquaclear sponges, do I just put them where I have the media in my filter now? Or do I need a new set up?
Thank you, so glad we have these forums bc I'm clueless

 

[Essjay]

Yes, take out the ammonia remover and replace it with filter sponge, any make cut to the same size and shape as the ammonia remover. Then test daily in case you have ammonia showing up, and in a few weeks, nitrite.
The carbon can stay in the cartridges if you prefer, just don't replace it like the manual says. Rinse them in old water taken out at a water change.


Bottled bacteria does expire. And there are only 2 brands known to contain the right species of nitrite eaters - Dr Tim's One & Only and Tetra Safe Start. I would buy a new bottle of one of those and hopefully they will shorten, if not eliminate, spikes.