Finally tearing down ugly 57g, building new 36g to replace it!

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Good to see you back AS.
I too have slung my more solid lumps of wood. I’ve replaced them gradually with spidery branchy type pieces. It allows more water in the tank, more circulation and I love to see the smaller fish swimming through them as opposed to around them. I’m drifting over to even smaller fish these days. Probably due to the tale below.

We‘re also ploughing through one of your livebearer explosions. I spotted a beautiful light blue lyre tail male Endler in PAH months ago and he was still there the following week when MrsLurch popped in there for cat food so he was snapped up. (reads badly that doesnt it!).
After three weeks solitary she put four of her females in with him instead of the two I suggested. 140+ fry later it’s still impossible to do a WC of the female tank without inducing another 5-15 fry. Every week it’s happening.

Your last arrangement in the post above is the one to use as a starting point imho.

Aaww, thanks dude! Lovely to see you too! Any pics of that lyre tail Endler male please? Sounds beautiful! I completely understand the temptation when you see a fish like that, that really grabs you, and especially when you have livebearers already, what's one more? But as you well know, then you want to breed that one, and they explode with babies everywhere you now have to raise and find homes for... lol! I really enjoyed keeping my livebearers, don't get me wrong. And I'm sure I'll have more at some stage. But at the moment, I'm relieved that the stress of constantly raising and rehoming guppy fry has gone! Of course I say that, and I'd finally rehomed the very last fry only a couple of months ago, and now my cory population has exploded, and I'll be raising and finding homes for all of them! Adorable little guys though, super fun to watch.

I like the look and the space given by the more branchy/spike wood pieces for sure. But since I really want this tank to make the plecos happy (and maybe breed - still not sure of their gender), and with the way corydoras bumble around, I think the more solid pieces that they can all safely explore and nom on without poking out an eye would be better for these guys. I do think I want one of the spiky branches as part of the arrangement. I'm glad you also think that something similar to the one above would be good! So the spiky branch will be higher up in the tank, adding height, but not a constant crash hazard for the bumbling bronzes, lol. Final arrangement won't be quite like that, but it's a rough starting point. Planning the more branchy/spiky pieces for the upgraded pygmy 20g though!


I'm leaning more and more towards nano fish too. Even in a huge tank, I think I'd want to fill it with a huge school of dwarf cories and a few hundred chili rasbora - and a ton of plants, of course! Huge groups of tiny species just works so well, and you see behaviours when they're in big groups that you just don't see when kept in groups of six or so. Saw a good vid about that recently, might make a thread about it and tag you if you'd like. Here's the vid, I love her delight at seeing the behaviours of the pygmies, and it's been my experience too. Once my group of seven grew to a colony of 20 and above, they school around and swim in large groups in a way they just didn't before.

 

[Wills]

Wow wow wow!! Number two in this post above looks amazing! I actually like it a bit murky too haha! Have you ever thought about doing tannins?

Wills

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Wow wow wow!! Number two in this post above looks amazing! I actually like it a bit murky too haha! Have you ever thought about doing tannins?

Wills

Thank you! I do really like the centre island arrangement in that shot too - and the new dragon stone arrived today, several smaller chunks with different shapes. Imagine that arrangement built onto a little central hill, small pieces of dragon stone tumbling down the sides and growing anubius and mosses. If it was a larger tank, with more space on either side, I'd totally go for it!

Hmm, maybe I should sell this tank and get a 40-50g instead...

You know what I mean though? I want the hardscape to be a striking feature, and to build plants around it, but I don't want it to dominate the entire space and leave no room for the cories.


I like tannins! Don't want to go full blackwater, since I like so many plants and colour, but I already use alder cones, almond leaves etc for their beneficial stuff, and don't mind tannin stained water. If the new piece of mopani ends up working in the final arrangement, that'll leach plenty of tannins for a while I'm sure! Some degree of tannins would suit a gloomy forest style arrangement though, I agree!

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Woohoo! New plants and mopani wood arrived - LOVE the wood piece! Really interesting shape that I think will work brilliantly
Plants came with it. The Crinum calamistratum, Alternanthera sessilis, and the two I haven't mentioned yet are the Lagenandra meeboldii Red, and Microsorum pteropus sp. Windlov. Usually I really don't like java ferns, but the interesting leaf shape of this one appeals, and it wasn't expensive so I thought I'd give it a try!
Plants look great, really happy with them! The Lagenandra is really nice, haven't had any of that species before.

Pics when I can snag them later

 

[ClownLurch]

Imho Centre Isle is the way to go if all your tanks have been more of a “stage set” design or all encompassing jungle scenario. Variety is the spice of fish life as Shakespeare once said. Or was it Enid Blyton?

A centre isle and Spidery Wood is the way I went with my Heterandria Formosa 60L from the very start.
A 99p sheet of Perspex from eBay that I superglued an ancient Briton Stonehenge style standing stone circle too then placed in the centre before adding the sand. Tall plants inside the circle and small ones in the gaps between the stones.
A revolving cast of 4-6 spider woods at the tank ends all with 3 or 4 tiny “feet” which allows me to remove them when gravel vaccing while causing minimum “build up” beneath their feet in comparison with more solid pieces.
Shotgun style double sponge filter behind the stone circle out of sight and an empty swim area in front of the circle.
The HFs must like it as they’re breeding like errrh Livebearers.

I’m still working on Mrs Lurch giving the nod to a 6ft LFWCMM and Endler tank (emerald king reckons theyre temp compatible) then moving my HFs into their current 120L. In a 6ft tank I’m gonna create a series of mini worlds……jungles……mountain range…….spider wood forest etc while retaining the stone circle.

Tank design is half of the fun. Best of luck.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I’m still working on Mrs Lurch giving the nod to a 6ft LFWCMM and Endler tank (emerald king reckons theyre temp compatible) then moving my HFs into their current 120L. In a 6ft tank I’m gonna create a series of mini worlds……jungles……mountain range…….spider wood forest etc while retaining the stone circle.

Oh my goodness, just imagining that got me all excited! Would be incredible. Could range from desert style, through mountains into deep jungle... awesome! Keep working on Mrs. Lurch, because I want to follow that tank journal as you build that!!

For what it's worth, I can totally see endlers and WCMM being kept in the same range. Guppies/endlers can handle much cooler water than most people think after all! Not a UK pond in winter of course. But sub-tropical for sure.

Tank design is half of the fun. Best of luck.

For sure! I'm itching to get planting though, and fed up with arranging and re-arranging wood and stone, and not being satisfied with any arrangement I come up with! I mean, I have enough wood pieces that the possible arrangements are endless really, and I think even with trying to take pics and gain that perspective, flicking through to compare them (and believe me, there are dozens of pics of ways I've tried out the hardscape that I haven't bored you all with!), and yet nothing seems to be quite working for me.

I think I'm struggling to mentally picture the final thing with plants. So I've added the heater now, and going to try placing the plants, still in their pots, where I think I'd like them to go. See if that helps me with the "vision" thing. I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and ideas!

 

[Wills]

Pictures and planning are all part of it When I got my 100 litre I used the lid of the box it came in to work out the hardscape. Putting the pots out in the tank makes sense just be careful not to let them dry out.

Wills

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Sorry for yet more cloudy pics, and yet another attempt at a different scape! Have changed out the filter floss and will loosely arrange some of the plants once it's clearer. Have stirred up the substrate a lot, trying to make a hill, changing my mind about scape, trying another etc.
I was getting really frustrated with this large wood piece, not sitting the way I wanted it to, trying to place it on the high end of a slope/mini hill made it really unstable, and stacking anything on top - like in my first attempts, made it all too tall and sticking out the top of the tank.
Then it hit me to try something totally different.

So I attempted to create a hill/slope that's higher on the right, gradually getting lower to the left. I imagined the tumbledown hill of dragon stone on the right, leading down to a more murky, bogwood moody forest part on the left hand side. The big wood works best on the left side due to the shape of it, and I have a lot of small - medium sized chunks of dragonstone, which also lends itself well for plant attachments.

There are some nylon bags filled with gravel under the dragonstone on the right to try to create height. I can even out the substrate a bit more on the left I'm sure, I just couldn't when it was even cloudier than it is in the pics!
I *think* I like this scape, and thinking perhaps of using the darker, deep purple and darker green slower growing plants on the left - sword, buces, mosses etc; and picturing stuff like the hydrocotyle tripartitia "japan" delicately draped over the rocky hill on the right...

Sunken forest side:

Tumbling dragon stone hill side:

@Wills , @ClownLurch , @mbsqw1d - Would really value any input on this, does this have some good potential? I'm really tired of messing with hardscape, so have lost perspective! As a reminder so you don't have to scan back and look at previous pics, there are three main scape ideas I've tried out, the rest have just been variations with different pieces.
Centre island idea, scape 1:

Scape 2 - Sunken forest idea, nearly all wood on a raised left side, couple of pieces of dragonstone mixed in, the right side left clear for some plants, and open sand area for cories etc. Other plants/mosses/ferns etc attached to wood, so a lot would be tucked into nooks and crannies:

Scape 3: Rock hill on right, sunken forest lower down on left:

Please let me know which scape style you prefer the look/idea of! Again, sorry for water quality making it tough to see it well.

 

[Wills]

For me its 1 or 2, with 3 when you see tanks with 2 styles split like that it can look a bit unnatural, you can get around this by having some rock and some wood on each side but with a dominant material there too. I think 1 will be the easiest to look after long term too I can see it working really well with loads of clear sand to the sides and front, tall stems and swords between the two big chunky branches, some kind of moss or small anubias on the spider wood and crypts/small bushes in the mid ground around the main structure.

Wills

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

For me its 1 or 2, with 3 when you see tanks with 2 styles split like that it can look a bit unnatural, you can get around this by having some rock and some wood on each side but with a dominant material there too. I think 1 will be the easiest to look after long term too I can see it working really well with loads of clear sand to the sides and front, tall stems and swords between the two big chunky branches, some kind of moss or small anubias on the spider wood and crypts/small bushes in the mid ground around the main structure.

Wills

I'm leaning the same way! Having stone one side, wood the other looks like two different scapes. Which could work brilliantly in a really long tank, with room to blend the elements more, but I don't have the space or right sized/scale hardscape to make it work in this tank, with what I have.
With the central scape, I can see building it like you said, filling gaps at the back with the large/tall plants, and building it up like a flower arrangement almost. I can stablise the wood in the centre more easily using chunks of dragonstone, also adding a height difference and focal point. Like these two tropica pics I linked before, but more concentrated in the centre and without a carpeting plant:

Really trust your opinion too, having seen the kind of gorgeous aquascape you can put together! thank you again so much for the encouragement and helpful feedback! You're a legend.

 

[Wills]

Ah thank you, you're too kind

Can really see this coming to life now, I agree though not to do a carpet. I think full carpets are a bit old fashioned these days. I think the hobby is going more to the natural look and a full carpet (as impressive as they are) does look a bit artificial to me.

 

[ClownLurch]

1 for me. Probably as every tank I’d ever had before my current HF Island tank was a “stage set” type affair. I’d gotten tired of the same old set up.
You’ll know best.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

1 for me. Probably as every tank I’d ever had before my current HF Island tank was a “stage set” type affair. I’d gotten tired of the same old set up.
You’ll know best.

Thank you! I really appreciate getting outside opinions from people with more perspective and experience. That's 3 votes for the central island so far, counting my own. Winning by a landslide!

Have levelled the sand back out pretty level now, scrubbed loads of dragonstone, and sorted through getting portions of the live plants I have, but don't know what they are yet. Shattered though, so I'll worry about setting up the final scape and getting photos and ID's for mystery plants in the next couple of days.

 

[mbsqw1d]

Aaaww, thank you!
Excellent point about leaning hardscape against the glass making life difficult later, have been bearing that in mind more since you mentioned it, thank you! I will secure the hardscape more solidly once I'm okay with the arrangement. But I hadn't really been considering the clean up/plant maintenance side of it, so the reminder is useful.


I do also have a tendency to use too much hardscape when I first set up a tank, then end up gradually removing pieces as the plants grow in and I decide they need more room! Easily done, when you want a tank to look full and like an established tank from day one.
I've gotta be patient though, and think of the hardscape more as a skeleton to build on rather than the main visual, the way it's easy to do before the plants and fish are in!
@Wills and @mbsqw1d , to give a better idea of the theme and style that appeal to me, I went through the tropica inspiration pages at length! I'm drawn to tanks with a huge variety of plants, and an almost jungle type look - not surprising, given how overplanted and left to run wild my tanks have always been! I love these ones especially...

Tropica layout 123:
View attachment 160462

Tropica layout 108:
View attachment 160463
Not to try to copy the advanced nature or high tech of course! Just what I'd call the "mood" and the variety of plants going on really appeals. The first one especially, even the designer admits it was hugely elaborate and a pain to work around and maintain. But I love the gloomy forest theme, and the way he built it up. The second one is a George Farmer one. I would be delighted to have something even half as nice! Without the carpeting for me, since this tank is mainly for my plecos and corydora school.

Now, shooting for me achievable for me, check out layout number 68, marked as easy:
View attachment 160470

But has a similar "sunken overgrown forest scape" feel to it, I think. I'm aiming for something in between the two extremes! Some interesting looking hardscape that provides cover and hidy spots for the plecs/cories, and can have many varieties of plants attached and around it, and some open sand for cories to feed and play.

@mbsq, this one really appealed as well and is closer to what I'd like to achieve, and also reminds me of your tanks!
View attachment 160464

Hope this makes sense to others! Just to give an idea of where my mind is at with it at the moment, but you all know how tank plans tend to change and evolve with planted tanks especially, and for people like me who love live plants, but aren't aquascapers!

ETA: fixed broken image.

Yeh really helped me out that tripoca site, they are experts after all I guess . I love #68 and looks achievable/not far off what I'd seen of your scape

 

[kross]

For me, #2 is my favorite, then #1, then #3.