Filter Question Regarding Cleaning It.....

[raptorrex]

I have to disagree completely here. one of the main benefits of cannisters is, long periods between cleans. as back2Fsih says. true, if you have reduced flow, the filter needs cleaned. but if that happens, in two or three weeks, something is wrong. perhaps over feeding?

according to who? because im almost certin that no manufacturer is going to suggest you wait 6mo between cleaning your filter?
and as i clearly mentioned earlier. by the time there is a noticeable difference in flow, your filter has already been hindered for way too long. canister filters are only rated to handle a certain amount of head pressure. (something like 4-5', depending on the manufacturer). this is usually marked by the length of the hoses that accompany your filter. the more unnecesary strain put on the motor beyond that can cause your equipment to break down much sooner than intended. (and people wonder why their filter leak. bahahahah. )


as far as i can see, most of the waste taken in by your filter is broken down, completely. (if the filter is working efficiently) not kept in the filter. i last cleaned my Eheim, a month ago. it had been 13 months since the last clean. (flow has slowed, noticeably, but not excessively, in that time.)

as mentioned earlier. not all solids are broken down. and as mentioned earlier (noticing a trend here?) dissolved solids do lower your PH, and have other negative effects on your water parameters.

remember, you can clean your media as carefully as you like. but you will still loose valuable bacteria, when cleaning.

i think this sentence explains exactly why you so foolishly disagree. it seems like someone has tragically misinformed you on this matter. if proper precautions are taken (IE. using decholrinated tank water, not TAP water. not allowing your media to dry out or go for extended periods without food and air. etc) you run absolutely NO risk of loosing enough bacteria to make a difference in your cycle.
as i said, i clean my filters every week to two weeks. i guess that disproves your "theory"

@back2Fish. you are not the only one surprised by bitteraspects comments. his "common sense" approach, honestly makes no sense. an effective filter breaks down the waste. if its truly, effective. all that is left in your filter is fibrous matter. and that cant break down much further. i would postulate that the reason he needs to clean so often is, that he does not have enough bacteria to "effectively" clean for the fish he keeps. that's not to say his fish are kept in any "bad" way. they just require more effort, than necessary, to keep that way.

BAHAHAHAHHAHAH. you would "postulate" WRONG!
not once did i ever say i "need" to clean my filters that often. merely that i CHOSE to. when performing weekly WC/ gravel vac. etc, why would you NOT take an extra 5 minutes out of your day to give your filter pads a squeeze in a bucket of tank water? youre already in ther tank and doing cleaning. whats 5 more minutes?
i CHOSE to clean my filters regularly to benefit bot my equipment and my fish. i GUARANTEE, my equipment will last much longer than yours if only due to its cleaning schedule.

As bitteraspects says

you just need to decide for yourself how you're going to do it

. but, to me, there is no point in making work for yourself. especially when all the evidence points to the fact that over cleaning is as bad, possibly worse, than low maintenance.

and again i ask, what "evidence"?
ive been keeping a weekly to bi-weekly WC/cleaning schedule for many years, and have yet to have any negative outcome because of it. guess there is no "evidence".
as for "why make more work for yourself"?... how about because your fish and equipment rely solely on you for their maintenance, and were only talking about 5 minutes a week.
5 minutes is a cigarette break, or the time it takes to walk down the driveway to get your mail. 5 minutes is a single television commercial, or one song on the radio.
if an extra 5minutes a week is too much "work" for you, i feel sorry for the way you were raised.


my advice. clean when you notice a drop in flow. judge, when you open the cannister, just how dirty it is. if you are getting clogging in some areas for the media, consider a change of type. six months seems to be the average for cannisters, though there is not rule. you will eventually gain experience of your system. this will allow you to "tailor" your cleaning to your, particular, environment. but i ,too, can say my system works with no ill efects on my fish. (i have never lost a fish to illness. indeed dont loose fish). so, if both work, why do any extra work?

clearly i can not speak for EVERY manufacturer, but i have NEVER seen any canister suggest you only do cleaning/maintenance every 6mo. i have seen 6-8 weeks (eheim), but NEVER once have i seen a manufacturer s instructions include the words "do not clean for 6 months".

as roadmaster explained to you earlier.

"anything that obstructs the flow of water through the filter should be removed on regular basis to ensure that filtration is running at optimum levels."

i have yet to meet a man who is bold enough to suggest that doing something for 5 minutes a week is "hard work". but if taking an extra 5 minutes during my usual tank cleaning day ensures my equipment will last longer, and fish will be happy, im more than happy to do it.

first. be decent enough not to add your comments to quotes attributed to me. at best its ignorant. and bone idle.

understanding the difference between best flow and best bio operation. its a simple difference. but clearly escapes you.

as for manufacturers instructions? I dont think i ever mentioned them. but eheim say "when the flow drops significantly". a good bit different to your thoughts. juwel also say that the period between cleans needs to be extended, for maximum bio action.
ultimately the consensus is what rules. if you can read back on the subject,(here) for several years, you will note that long cleaning intervals are the norm. you may want to ignore the finding and action of vastly experienced members. personally i find the experiences of others helpful.
the fact remains a filter can only build up a bio colony to match the waste it needs to remove. constant washing or rinsing of this, will lead to a loss of bacteria, simple fact. if you like to play, fair enough.

a simple google search results in many posts , suggesting, long cleaning intervals. constant cleaning? err not so much.

 

[rabbut]

Every time I read a Bitteraspects thread I get the feeling I just have to click the report button due to ad-homen attacks he's making on other individual, purely because they are stating a point of view contrary to his. Why can't he just stick to the facts? When will he be reminded than Ad-homen attacks are against this boards rules? Keyboard warriors, honestly

Anyhow, back on topic...

Filter cleaning. Well, this is very subjective, as you've probably noticed. Both parties are right too

Biological filteration works most effectively with slower flow as it gains more contact time. In this regards, if you leave the filter until the flow starts to drop, it will be working most effectively at the point where you clean it.

Mechanical filtration works most effectively with higher flow-rates, so in this regard the filter is most efficient directly after a clean-out

IMO, you need to strike a balance between them. Bitteraspects values his mechanical filtration more than his biological (I recall he thinks it more important from a previous run-in), so likes his filter clean. Boboboy likes his Biological filtration more and hence prefers to leave his filters "stewing" longer. Personally, I lean more towards Bobboboy's line of thought on this, but both arguments have valid points.

When I used Tetratec external, I cleaned one every 3 months, so each got attention every 6 months on a heavily stocked, heavily fed system. The flow didn't usually noticeable reduce in this time, but there was a lot of crud in there when I cleaned them. That worked fine for me

Yes, you equipment will last longer if cleaned regularly. Over-cleaning has been linked to mini-cycles though. Yes, keep the media clean, but don't scrub it if you are cleaning regularly. Remember, mature filter media will be permanently discoloured, as bacterial films in the tank are (usually) a brown colour

One thing that is clearly wrong for the same reason they claim it's right... Here's a Bitteraspects quote...

I've noticed a trend across the pond where cleaning your filters only every 6mo or so. Here in the US, most serious hobbyists would either cringe of laugh at such a suggestion. To imply that the shape of your filter determines how often it needs to be cleaned, laughs in the face of common sense.

Not sure if you've noticed, but most medias have the same sized pores all the way though. Have you not noticed therefore, especially on the first stage of mechanical filtration, that they always clogg bottom-up? If so, surely, surface area will deturmin how long that media will go before it's clogged. A piece of media 4"X6" as in a Fluval will clog and need replacing far sooner than the foot square bit of the same media in a Tetratec/Rena/Eheim. to this effect, a filters sizes will have a big baring on cleaning intervals, as larger surface areas of media will clogg less quickly, as least in the first stage of mechanical filtration

 

[Tolak]

Rabbut hit on many good points here. Most canister excel at bio filtration, being lower flow rate for the given volume of media. This being the case there will be less solid waste in them, requiring less frequent cleaning. Your typical hob filter has a higher flow rate for the media volume, making it better at mechanical filtration. This filter will need more frequent cleaning.

One point that stands out is striking a happy medium. This can be done by choice of media, or my favorite, using multiple filters set up to use their strengths. This is my favorite way of doing things.

For a free standing setup, it's hard to beat an Eheim canister for bio filtration, and a good size AquaClear hob for mechanical filtration. In a setup such as this the canister will go for many months between cleanings, as any debris is picked up by the hob filters. The hob filters need more frequent cleaning.

In my fishroom everything is air powered. I run a sponge filter at a slow rate, and box filter at a higher rate. The box filters get maintained every 1-3 weeks, depending on the situation, sponges may go for 6 months.

I don't think there is any difference between regions when it comes to filter maintenance. I've run canister filters 18 months at a stretch, record for a hob is 14 months. I do this to see what will break, when, and which makes & models hold up.

Back to the question the OP asked; I've gotten 3-4 months out of an ECCO, these are an entry range Eheim product. The media doesn't plug, the recesses in the head itself that lead to the impeller do. Remember to remove the impeller & hose these out during maintenance, you should easily get a couple of months between cleanings, depending on your stocking.

 

[J4G3D]

Well i wanted a reply but i didnt expect to logon to see all this lol.

Good read but theres alot of different opinions on this matter.

I can see the reason why you SHOULDNT clean or change the media in the filter but then again i can see the reason why you SHOULD.

Im so tempted to clean it out and change the media but i think i will go by cleaning/changing it once every 6 months to a year or when the flow of water slows down abit.

Please correct me if im wrong!

 

[Inchworm]

Hi J4G3D

While I can't address the questions about the specific filter you are using, I did want to point out that once the ammonia/nitrite has been consumed by the beneficial bacteria, the remaining solid waste is not harmful to your fish. One of the common uses for it is to feed young corydoras fry.

This is a picture of a tank of newly hatched corys with layer of mulm that had been cleaned out of a box filter. Their only food for the first week was the microorganisms in it.

 

[fett999]

As you can see from the erm..... differences of opinion here, the best cleaning routine for your' filter is YOUR' routine.
Over time we all find the routine that works for us and our filter and fish. I won't add mine here because it's my routine.
If you find cleaning every 6 months to a year works for you and your' tank then thats the best routine for you.

 

[raptorrex]

Phew, new blood, now we can move on.

the point, i was trying, to make. was not that I was right. just the advice to clean a filter, especially a cannister, on such a regular basis, flys in the face of the advice given here, for the years, on the subject.

Well i wanted a reply but i didnt expect to logon to see all this lol.

Good read but theres alot of different opinions on this matter.

I can see the reason why you SHOULDNT clean or change the media in the filter but then again i can see the reason why you SHOULD.

Im so tempted to clean it out and change the media but i think i will go by cleaning/changing it once every 6 months to a year or when the flow of water slows down abit.

Please correct me if im wrong!

by all means clean as you see fit. but, i'm sure, all would agree there is no need to "change out" media at all. most media will last for years, whether sponge/pumice/ceramic. the suggestion to "change" it on a regular basis, tends to come from the manufacturers. and seems based on sales, not tank health.

if you found this thread "interesting". do a forum search on the subject. if nothing else you will get a broader view of how people, here, have dealt with the subject.

 

[waterdrop]

I would just like to say to the OP that, yes, its -your- routine, but in my case I found it to be satisfyingly real and not just some theoretical thing where I picked one week or 2 months as my filter clean cycle.

Over in the beginners section, where, as a "re-beginner", I hang out, we often suggest to beginners that they start off their new tank and new maintenance routines with a weekly gravel-clean-water-change and a monthly (or every two weeks if they have a smaller internal or HOB filter) filter clean, BUT, that they need to keep a sharp eye on these routines and be ready to modify then based on tank observations, test feedback and the practical consideration of their own time.

One observation we suggest is that of regularly logging their nitrate(NO3) levels. We tell them its not for the NO3 itself per se but because it makes a good "flag" test serving as a surrogate for dozens of other organics and trace inorganics that we don't have the money or time to test. If NO3 settles and stays in a range no more than about 15 to 20ppm -above- whatever their tap water NO3 level is, then their maintenance is reasonable. If NO3 continues to creep up then their current routine is not frequent enough.

Another observation is how well their fine-mechanical layer is doing (floss pad, floss layer, whatever.) Its just may be a rough visual cue when they begin to see a bit more small debris in the water that this will remind them to add filter cleaning to one of their water changes, although of course this does not necessarily correlate with other filter functions.

I run an Eheim Pro 2222 on my son's small 28G/106L and I find myself somewhere in-between bitter and bobo. I'm uncomfortable going a lot of months, not for clogging but I just have seen my particle filtration decline. On the other hand I know I couldn't sustain weekly filter cleans as I even miss the weekly gravel-clean-water-change occasionally and I know from lots of reading on TFF that I have lots of company in that regard.

I would also like to say to the OP that in the past I've learned things from the comments of both bitter and bobo and I think its valuable from time to time to have a fuss over something in a discussion. One valuable thing I've learned is that there is some flexibility in the various approaches and many paths can still result in a beautiful healthy tank.

~~waterdrop~~