Fighting Bettas?

[Synirr]

Please nobody get this thread closed, for the love of God... these things always start and I'm looking forward to the debate, then someone goes nutso and ruins it for everyone else willing to discuss things without namecalling and inappropriate language

Anyway, as far as just fighting the fish goes, I'm 99% sure that's legal, it's the gambling part that might get you into trouble. Like lljdma06 said, ask your local authorities, they ought to know what the gambling laws are

 

[jollysue]

This is a toughie. It is emotionally loaded. I myself am uncomfortable with all these forms of fighting animals for pleasure and betting. Still I understand it to be part of a culture and is viewed from different perspectives.

I know that Betta fighting is prevalent in my community. We have been heavily settled by South East Asians. I can even point you to the fish store that would be a connection to the fighting community and to buy fighters.

If I had to predict, I would say that eventually it will be outlawed in the States as a form of sport. But animal sacrifice as part of a religious practice is still a part of those communities and is legal.

Consider that in the States the movie industry feels it necessary to assure us that "no animal was harmed in the making of this movie." The majority in America have no stomach for what they consider as animal cruelty. And the anti-animal cruelty folk are very vocal. I mean look at the gut response by a large segment to keeping Betta in a small container.

Please remember to invite me to a good debate!

 

[happyannie]

It is a loaded issue like everyone else is saying.....I saw on the news once after the US went in how life in Afghanistan was getting back to normal and they showed these guys riding around on horses...etc. Turns out the game involves chucking a headless goat around a field. In the US.... ah.....that ain't normal.
We have laws here about cruelty to animals which aren't enforced that often. They MIGHT be if you rubbed somebody the wrong way....like old laws about sexual practices etc aren't enforced unless the authorities want something to throw at you. I think in more cultured circles in Asia it's not a bloodsport but a matter of pride in breeding...The cockfighting and dog fighting here in the US are done by less than cultured people who care anything or even know anything about genetics and breeding (other than with their sisters ) The animals are kept in bad conditions too. Yeah, the gambling would be illegal and the cops might get down on you for cruelty to animals when they busted you if they were having a bad night and/or felt they wanted to score a bigger bust or didn't have enough coffee & doughnuts to get them into the zone....
just random thoughts.....those are mostly what I have these dayz

edited for spulling

 

[jollysue]

The level of culture and refinement depends on the socio-economic strata of the community you are looking at. The community that fights fish that I have run into in Fresno are in the inner city and many are far from educated. It is a practice in all the levels of a community that have practioners.

The boys are not allowed to keep Betta in the group home where I work because they would fight them, most without any knowledge of the sport.

 

[Synirr]

Not sure where masta_2009 is from, but no cop in the states would come down on you for animal cruelty for fighting bettas no matter how bad a night he/she has had. Fish are not protected under animals cruelty laws here (neither are reptiles, I believe.)

 

[juliehainsworth]

Personally I don't agree with fighting bettas for fun/profit! I know it goes on but like people say they are treated very well before and after (at least I hope they are after anyway even if they lose perhaps someone could clarify that they arent left to die in pain?)

I would also like this discussion to stay open so I could learn more!

 

[Synirr]

Natsuko -- The losing fish are generally released into the wild -- best medicine they could hope for!

 

[juliehainsworth]

I never knew that! Thanks Synirr!

Its one way of keeping variety in the wild I suppose too, well providing they survive which I'm sure some do! Never know it might make them more determined and they become tough nuts out there who might be caught and win in future fights (its a slight possibility I suppose)

 

[flautist]

Natsuko -- The losing fish are generally released into the wild -- best medicine they could hope for!

Are they healed first, or just tossed out there with all their wounds?

 

[_cRaCkEr_]

Natsuko -- The losing fish are generally released into the wild -- best medicine they could hope for!

Are they healed first, or just tossed out there with all their wounds?

They should be healed first, they will be released after a week or so.

 

[jollysue]

I wouldn't think that there are very many places around here that they could be released to. There are many South East Asian communities in Minnesota. Where could they be released there?

 

[masta_2009]

Not sure where masta_2009 is from,

I'm from the UK-

I have rang around and enquired about wether or not it is illegal to fight siamese fighting fish in this country and whilst the majority of Betta suppliers weren't sure, one LFS shop was adement that is IS Illegal in this country and is therefore a prosecutable offence under the same rules and regulations as cock fighting and dog fighting.

'In Britain, convictions for cock fighting under the 1911 Protection of Animals Act can bring about a six-month prison sentence and/or a £5,000 fine.The League Against Cruel Sports is adamantly opposed to cock fighting AND OTHER CRUEL SPORTS. We work closely with the Police and the RSPCA in helping bring those responsible to justice.' taken from League against cruel sports.

 

[jollysue]

Well, following your lead, masta 2009, I called the Fresno, CA, American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA). The young lady I talked to didn't know and whoever she talked to didn't know if Betta fighting was legal or not. They did naturally consider the practice cruel. That would of course be their position. She didn't seem to be aware that it is a practice in Fresno, CA.

As to whether there is ever a response to animal cruelty, the SPCA I believe will look into reports of cruelty to mammals.

I am certain that the SPCA and Peta, as well as other animal anti-cruelty and rights orgs, would be opposed to the practice. Whether they take time and resources to actively oppose it is another matter.

Of course, the betting that no doubt is part of the practice, if more organized than the "boys' friendly night out poker game," would be illegal in some states but probably not all.

I am wondering if California and US Fish and Game would know the general attitude. I am inclined to believe that they would not approve of releasing Betta into any local waterways.

I think we have to make a difference between organized Betta fighting and small groups of friends who might fight their Bettas.

I once watched the big horse race in GB on TV where the horses jump barriers. A beautiful horse, that I had spotted and could see it was tiring, was pushed to take a big jump. She fell on the other side of the barrier and broke her neck. I love to watch the Triple Crown in the States. The horses are great hearted athletes. Horses are frequently badly hurt in these sports. Often they are no longer put down if they are valuable studs, but still

As Annie said, these are random thoughts. But we sure have not got this discussion going with much insight offered.

 

[rEvolution27]

Well we cockfight in my country and it's fun to watch until they stay pecking eachother's eyes out. In my POV it's like wrestling, except wrestling is voluntary. Brings up an interesting point as to if the fish voluntarily fight. I'd say if they've been trained to fight they will.

Animal cruelty is alays a tough issue. We used to put frogs into bamboo cannons let them fly. Quite amusing. I don't have the emotional strengh or should i say lack of emotion to be able to fight a fish and watch it suffer from infections after. HOWEVER like cracker said you must know how to do it. I'm sure if you raise a strong fish it will not have much problems from a short fight, after all they do fight in the wild.

I'd say i have no problem with fighting bettas and don't think it should be outlawed in any country, maybe monitored or maybe you should need a license. I think banning things like this if they are not getting out of control is only slowly taking our freedom away. God alone knows the kind on mischeif we get into here that would be illegal in most other countries. And i've always had a fasination with fighing animals. I once caught two spiders and starved them, then fought them to see the outcome (not that i think THAT's morally right)

so my conclusion
- Yes
- Should be monitored
- Should need a license
- Should have a not cause excess pain or death of a fish
- Fights should be very short

After all, fights like this do happen in the wild so if done properly there shouldn't be a problem doing it in a confined space.
They have beendoing it in thialand for years, centuries even.

 

[jollysue]

I think the licensing thing is interesting, also limiting the match. We need to remember that there are differing standards in differing communities and countries, though. In the USA there are some major differences between what is allowed in different states. I think outlawing the practice in Thailand would be ludicrous, it would be like outlawing bullfighting in Spain. But letting the practice become common in a country where it is not common is another matter.

Prostitution is legal and licensed in Nevada, USA. But I doubt that every State is going to legalize it, regardless of the aguments for it. The religious foundations are much different. I think that goes for GB too. What is considered perfectly natural to one culture is abhorrent to another.

Consider the whippings of juvenal delinquents in Hong Kong. Won't happen in many countries--legally. We barely let parents whip their kids here. We execute murderers in many US states, but many more countries will not allow it and consider it barbaric, while women are not allowed to be educated in other countries and can be burned alive on their husband's funeral pyre in others.