Fao Bex - Guess What....

[Bex]

Hey Kathy, I'm tempted by the Green Phantom....and the medusa.....and the para plecs....oh I love Trimar!

Hi Lisa

Go with the Green Phantom, they are such a cool colour and I swear mine is getting greener and spottier! When he suddenly swims across the tank is just big green flash that swoops past.

 

[KathyM]

I agree Bex - Green Phantoms rock! And they get to a nice size too. Apparently they're quite hardy compared to many "fancy" plecs too.

Bex I think you'd give me a run for me money with a Green Phantom in the "Who's got the poshest plect" competition


Oh and......

 

[nmonks]

Kathy --

In the meantime, you might find these Wikipedia entries fun. I put together some notes of my own along with some really good information a scientist working on Panaque, Hirofumi Nonogaki, passed along to me. There are some more pictures of my catfish there, as well. She is lovely, and has become even prettier the older she's become. Anyway, the link to the Panaque research pages are particularly enlightening because you get to find out about their natural habitat, always a good thing when keeping fish.

http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaque
http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaque_nigrolineatus

One thing Hirofumi Nonogaki told me was that Panaque not only don't need meaty foods, but fed too often, they will do the fish harm. He gets specimens sent to him by aquarists, and a lot of the ones that have died prematurely have fatty deposits around the internal organs. To him, this suggests a too-rich diet. So, with Panaque, wood is the prime foodstuff, greens come next, and meaty things like prawns should be used very sparingly, if at all. Mine basically eats just wood and greens, and the only protein-rich food she gets is the odd Hikari algae wafer, maybe one every few days.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[KathyM]

Thanks Neale - yes that was what I was talking about when I said we'd had concerns about diet (with him going in with a gibby and BN). We've found a way around this, and apparently having cories is a good backup too when it comes to falling food from the other fish.

What I'd be interested in knowing is more on this:

Royals are herbivores like you said - can tolerate small amounts of protein but regular protein can be a danger.

Gibbies however are technically omnivores, and therefore in theory sharing a tank could be harmful to Royal. *However*, it's been suggested on another board that although gibbies are technically omnivores, they don't need a high protein diet, and can thrive on the protein levels of spirulina wafers for example, but their main diet being the veg.

De Niro (our gibby) has spirulina wafers and courgette as a staple diet. He eats the wafers directly after they're put in the tank, so if the protein content of the wafers was dangerous to the Royal, this could be got around by feeding him them one at a time (which we do anyway) and feeding the Royal an alternative at the same time - let's face it they're unlikely to be snuggling up together, so feeding them separately should be doable.

I'd appreciate your advice on the best diet for the Royal on arrival too. Edit: That's if he needs anything special on arrival, or should he just go on what you suggested? We have bogwood and they all get veggies daily.

 

[Bex]

I agree Bex - Green Phantoms rock! And they get to a nice size too. Apparently they're quite hardy compared to many "fancy" plecs too.

Bex I think you'd give me a run for me money with a Green Phantom in the "Who's got the poshest plect" competition


Oh and......

Hey Kathy

My mate is bringing round his digital SLR camera tonight with tripod and stuff so should be able to get some good pics of Louie for you. Hopefully will be easier to post than from a phone!

 

[LisaLQ]

Hey Kathy, I'm tempted by the Green Phantom....and the medusa.....and the para plecs....oh I love Trimar!

Hi Lisa

Go with the Green Phantom, they are such a cool colour and I swear mine is getting greener and spottier! When he suddenly swims across the tank is just big green flash that swoops past.

I'm torn though, as I've always wanted a medusa, but love the look of GPs. And I've now got a big gibby, and apparently gibbies are mean cranky horrible plecs, and I dont know whether a Green Phantom would be too big and reek havoc with my gibby in my 6ft tank.

Then again, I need something that isn't too small either as I still have my oscar for now, and will be keeping my other cichlid (vieja intermedium) in the long run.

Pah, these decisions are always tough

Hey Kathy, weren't you coming round today?

 

[Bex]

Hey Kathy, I'm tempted by the Green Phantom....and the medusa.....and the para plecs....oh I love Trimar!

Hi Lisa

Go with the Green Phantom, they are such a cool colour and I swear mine is getting greener and spottier! When he suddenly swims across the tank is just big green flash that swoops past.

I'm torn though, as I've always wanted a medusa, but love the look of GPs. And I've now got a big gibby, and apparently gibbies are mean cranky horrible plecs, and I dont know whether a Green Phantom would be too big and reek havoc with my gibby in my 6ft tank.

Then again, I need something that isn't too small either as I still have my oscar for now, and will be keeping my other cichlid (vieja intermedium) in the long run.

Pah, these decisions are always tough

Hey Kathy, weren't you coming round today?

Hi Lisa

Apparently GP's will max out at about 10 - 12inches so should be fine in your 6ft. I know nothing about compatability though. Kathy has a gibby so she might be more helpful!

 

[nmonks]

I'm _not_ a catfish expert by any means, so all I can is repeat here what Hirofumi (the scientist working on them) put to me. Specifically:

• My specimen is Columbian/Venezuelan population, which tend to do well in aquaria
• Brazilian populations (Rio Xingu, Tapajos, or Tocantins) do not do well (are short lived) in aquaria
• The prime reason for that seems to be that the Brazilian royals in particular react badly to animal protein diets, specifically, too many calories
• Brazilian specimens that had died in aquarium tanks were dissected and seen to have abnormally high quantities of fat around the internal organs but the stomachs were usually empty, implying the wrong (i.e., low in wood and fibre) diet
• Hiro recommends spirulina, chlorella, soy protein
• He thinks (but hasn't proved) that there are nitrogen fixing bacteria in the intestines, which would mean that so as long as the fish can eat wood, aquarists do not need to worry about feeding their fish beyond that because they can synthesise all the proteins they need (like herbivorous mammals)
• He would not keep Panaque with meat-eating plecs such as Pseudacanthicus because of the risk of the Panaque developing an unhealthy taste for meaty foods.

When I got my royal plec, she was a tiny thing, about 2-3 cm long, and all I've ever fed her is Hikari wafers, vegetables, and wood. Very occasionally (like once every couple of months) I let her have a frozen prawn. I know they can be delicate on import, and possibly supplying a few bloodworms mightn't be a bad idea, but so long as your specimen has some spinach, courgette, and all the other nice veggies it needs, I'd not worry too much.

Cheers,

Neale

I'd appreciate your advice on the best diet for the Royal on arrival too. Edit: That's if he needs anything special on arrival, or should he just go on what you suggested? We have bogwood and they all get veggies daily.

 

[KathyM]

Thank you very much Neale, that's really interesting and helpful. I have no idea which area this Royal comes from, but hopefully when I get him home and take a photo we can compare him to the various L numbers for Royals.

The plus side is I think Hikari are as high protein as the wafers we use, so we should be okay then. We use these:

http/www.invertsupplies.co.uk/product-11.html

Must admit I'm tempted to switch to Wardley or Tropical wafers as they're lower protein and have the spirulina as a main/1st ingredient. HBH/HGH (? - never heard of them) are low protein with spirulina as their main ingredient too. I was disappointed to find out that Sera Catfish Chips which are the ones with wood in, have fish as their main ingredient. I'm sure there was another brand containing wood/lignine too, but can't remember.

Can you tell I've been reading up? LOL

 

[KathyM]

He's heeeeeeeeerrreeee!!!

 

[Bex]

He is gorgeous Kathy!!! Been checking all day to see when he arrived - I'm at work and doing nothing else LOL!

I want one! I want one! I want one! You lucky devil! He was quite cheap too. The one I saw was £60! And you got a good pic of him straight away!

My mates camera didn't show last night so still no Louie I'm afraid!

 

[KathyM]

Thanks Bex! Yeah I'm completely in love with him He's a good healthy shape - nice full (but not bloated) tummy and his eyes aren't sunken. He's got straight to work on De Niro's bogwood rocket, despite us having put in a huge piece for him *lol*.

We're going to have to find someone local to you with a bloody digicam, I can't wait to see Louie!

 

[Bex]

Thanks Bex! Yeah I'm completely in love with him He's a good healthy shape - nice full (but not bloated) tummy and his eyes aren't sunken. He's got straight to work on De Niro's bogwood rocket, despite us having put in a huge piece for him *lol*.

We're going to have to find someone local to you with a bloody digicam, I can't wait to see Louie!

We've decided "to hell with it" and we are gonna buy one. Seen a nice Olympus so gonna splash out. I promise you will see him soon!

I keep going back your Royal he is so cute. What you gonna call him? I think you should call him Bob, then you have Bob and De Niro! LOL!

 

[KathyM]

LOL another name list growing! Got to name the BN too yet

Like I said, can't wait to see Louie, glad you're getting a posh camera (I have to nick LisaLQ's as mine is bust).

 

[Bex]

Well it will be at least next week as funds are a bit low this week.

Can't wait to get my big tank so I can get more plecs. I wasn't keen on them at first cos I didn't know much about them but the OH wanted one. Then we saw Louie and now I've seen so many I just love them. They are so different to other fish.



Let me know when you name him and the BN. Methinks they will all have some kinda De Niro theme which is cool!