External Vs Internal Filters

[anon02]

Am I missing something ? are there filters that remove all the fish waste and plant debris from the tank floor ? Or have some fishkeepers trained their fish to crap by the outflow pipe ?

 

[waterdrop]

no, substrate-cleaning water changes are still a huge part of maintenance. I just think we were responding to the first post by the OP by discussing some of the subtle differences between different filter designs. Your point is good.. that its important not to think that filters are overly good at debris pickup. Different tanks vary a lot in how much the filter itself picks up and can never eliminate substrate maintenance in my opinion. WD

 

[anon02]

no, substrate-cleaning water changes are still a huge part of maintenance. I just think we were responding to the first post by the OP by discussing some of the subtle differences between different filter designs. Your point is good.. that its important not to think that filters are overly good at debris pickup. Different tanks vary a lot in how much the filter itself picks up and can never eliminate substrate maintenance in my opinion. WD

I may be biased because my main tank has a trickle filter. I see the main benefit being that because you are relying on gravity to push the water through the media there is no compacting and therefore no loss of flow. IMHO if a filter has a certain throughput and a fixed inlet position then it wont matter if the filter is internal or external, it`s the chemical products that I expect my filter to deal with, I`ll deal with the solids when it comes to water change / gravel clean time

 

[the biffster]

(I'm probably coming in late and missing the point going back and forth here ..but) waste separation is separation, doesn't really matter whether the container is in or out of the volume of the tank as far as the separation goes (but it does for volume, which I'll get to).. Among other things, I guess, separation accomplishes a lowering of the amount of debris in all its various stages of breakdown in the areas where the fish are, and concentrates it is a separate place where the bacteria are on the media. One thing I remember kind of "missing" about filters was that the very fact that mechanical trapping collects this debris means that the box is constantly producing a higher concentration of the ammonia and nitrite that the bacteria need, in other words its not just the fact that the flow is bringing new waste in from the tank (ammonia coming off the gills etc.,) its also the stuff that's been sitting there separated for a period of time. Kind of a simple thought but somehow I spent a period of time sort of missing that concept.

Of course, where inside tank vs. outside tank does make an obvious difference is in the overall water volume of the system available to fish (again, a rather obvious and simple observation but one that people can kind of "miss.") When the filter is within the tank volume (internal, undergravel), it subtracts from the available "fish-use" volume, whereas when its outside (hood trays, HOB, external cannister, sump) it then *adds* to the overall system volume. The fish literally are given both a larger volume to swim in and a there is a larger volume of water from a chemistry stand-point. This is another slight benefit that's different from the larger media volume of external cannisters that we usually discuss in this sort of conversation. Does that make sense?

~~waterdrop~~

yep i get it

 

[Aqua Tom]

Are External much noisier than Internal? I only ask because my seperate air pump is stupidly noisey so I use the venturie on my Internal, which is still quite noisey.

I like the idea of freeing up some space in the tank but cant see the point if its going to be too loud.

 

[the biffster]

no not any nosier in fact quieter
just seen one of the new fluvals today
running it was silent and the new ehiem's
as well silent i couldn't believe it

 

[waterdrop]

Air pumps and external filters are totally different in the noise department. Air pumps are a huge problem usually, whereas the entire noise range discussed about external filters is much quieter. There -are- differences however among models and brands of external cannister filters. As externals get larger, most model lines eventually can't help but cross over to being a bigger machine that just has inherently more noise than the smaller ones (it can also be surprising how different people are about "hearing" these sorts of noises, lol.)

Eheims, in my experience, are some of the most awesomely silent machines ever put together, but of course you pay for it usually! I believe Rena, Fluval and Tetratec/Marineland also have some fairly quiet models but they vary.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Vidster]

Are External much noisier than Internal? I only ask because my seperate air pump is stupidly noisey so I use the venturie on my Internal, which is still quite noisey.

I like the idea of freeing up some space in the tank but cant see the point if its going to be too loud.

I am using a Tetratec external filter and it it totally silent. If i turn off the air pump and all other sources of noise in the room (tv), i hear nothing at all.

 

[Fish are friends]

The fluval u2 is a perfect internal filter for a medium tank (mine 90l) and it is totally silent. i have an airpump sitting the cupboard below the tank and it makes a sort of annoying buzzing sound so to get away from that i have placed it on a towel folded a few times and have a bubble curtain so most of what you hear is the bubbles on the surface so all in all a pretty good sounding tank..