Energy Prices and Winter

[Deleted member 149562]

Try to ignore the media and listen to the energy companies who are giving you exact pence per kilowatt hour and understand that has just increased by 80% that’s just a fact no opinion.

I don’t see any harm and I think you’d agree in working out how much our tanks cost to run in any day and age though? If my maths are correct my three tanks could cost over £180 a month to run so I will need to make a choice between them and eating raw spuds.

Wills

You don't need heating in aquariums tween March and October and even during the other months its only during the night when temps tend to drop that heating might be required.

Fridges and freezers that are not jam packed full use way more electricity cos its hard work for the motors to chill or freeze spaces so scrunch up newspaper or stuff a pillow or blanket into the freezer and fridge when its getting empty tween shopping trips

Turn radiators and storage heaters off in rooms that are not used constantly or at all. Insulate the loft spaces better (average life for loft insulation is 10 years, it should be replaced or doubled up in that time)

Open windows and allow fresh air in since constantly stuffy warm rooms sweat, condensation builds up, causes mold and makes the heating work harder so costs more

I have no heat source in my flat...my previous houses had no heat source. It is not necessary to set the thermostat at 25 or more indoors, its wasteful. Thermostat set at 18-20 is more than adequate. We don't get cold winters in the UK.

I use aquarium lighting in my kitchen as security lighting at night....glued a strip of blue aquarium LEDs to the wall under the cupboards. I have battery powered PIR lights in the hallway and bathroom and kitchen so instead of using the electric lighting, I use battery lighting instead that automatically comes on and off when I get up during the night etc

You have to be creative and you have to check yourself when thinking about turning the thermostat up...go get another jumper on instead of doing the easy thing and turn up the heating.

When I was a kid there wasn't central heating in our home, it was coal fires and a tin bath (the island was a bit behind the times but we never went without, might not have been brand new but handmedowns and charity shop is often better anyway)

There is too much emphasis on having the latest gadgets and gizmos and the best labels and the best toys etc thesedays. It used to be called buying stuff on the tick...credit....its bad, its very very bad cos people lose the ability to live within their means, it stops people saving for the proverbial rainy day when a bigger bill than expected comes in and it screws priorities

Holidays and hobbies are awesome but not on credit and not before the bills are paid and the freezer/fridge is full. And there is no shame in buying secondhand PS3 and buying clothing at charity shops etc. We throw stuff away too easily....cos it is the wrong colour or not fashionable anymore etc

I never had birthday parties or presents when a kid, no christmas presents as a kid, family holidays were to the local holiday camp on the island for a week or to my aunt and uncle's place in Rotterdam and Casablanca (they paid, it was on my uncle's ship cos he was a captain for SMIT). I learnt to appreciate what I had not what Joe Bloggs had down the road. I learnt to budget and to save and thanks to dad I learnt to fix my own cars, rebuild engines and do DIY.

Kids thesedays haven't got a clue about what real life is cos they get catered for their every whim and demand by parents wracking up credit lines and debt.....cos they can't say "NO!" to their kids.

I'm sorry but seeing these sulking adults in the media saying they can't afford bills etc when they have a full Sky subscription, high end appliances, foreign holidays and the kids go to school with their iPhones and Nikes.....serves them right. If they want to live on credit, great you do that...but don't cry to the media cos you can't afford to pay the bills.

 

[GaryE]

I thought about this one last night. I don't think you can know the cost beforehand. I'm in nowhere near the energy bind you're in, but when I moved here I left the Canadian province with the cheapest electricity and came to one on the higher end of costs. I tried to calculate my costs, but there are so many variables that the only answer I had was "more". I'll see after a winter running the fishroom. So far so good, but all I can do is look at costs after a winter and decide if I need to cut corners in various places I've identified.

The picture will be complicated by weather, for one thing. A mild winter will give me a different view than a cold one would. I set a budget and if I go beyond it, I have to make changes.

I did not get an 80% rise in costs though.

There are going to be a lot of second hand tanks hitting the market in England. Europe is where the heart of this hobby beats, in terms of innovation and commitment from aquarists, and if energy costs knock people out of the hobby, conservative USA and Canada will suffer by extension. Who knows, maybe the Florida fishfarm industry will come back to life as shipping costs (also up by several times what they were even before the Russian attack on Ukraine) make Asian fish out of reach.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Mainland Europe is in a far worse situation than the UK, especially Germany

Reason being that the UK has its own supplies and stocks of gas and utilities....countries like Germany have no domestic stocks or supplies - this was a problem during WW2 since they depended on imports of everything, they have never had domestic gas fields or oil fields like the UK has, even electricity is mostly from stations and windfarms outside of their country

The issues of supply and demand and the cost of supply is not unique to the UK despite what the media will have you think when they take aim at the government. Everywhere is facing the same problem and it has been exacerbated by the Ukraine invasion and the unusually warm summer......the old perfect storm thing once again.

The UK has coal seams but are not allowed to dig for them cos of the climate chummies. We are not allowed to go fracking for the same reason. Our oil and gas fields in the North Sea are increasing output and they serve both Norway and the UK and we are exporting to mainland European countries too. We also share power production by way of nuclear, solar and windfarm with Europe....some of the biggest windfarms in the world are off the UK, Belgian and Dutch coasts and we all have a share in what is produced.

OFGEM who mandate the energy price capping in the UK were initiated and given their various permissions in 1999 under the Blair government. It replaced OFFER & OFGAS which had been set up in 1989 under the Thatcher government before privatisation was given the go-ahead, until 1990 all companies supplying utilities were nationalised and were far tighter in their controls and onward costs to the customer.. Privatisations went ahead in 1990 under the Hesletine government, it was one of the main sticking points that eventually toppled Thatcher, since she was not willing to privatise the utilities. It was Blair & Brown who changed the retail cost and profit margins of the suppliers and shifted the price cap rules to allow for higher profitability for suppliers and for fluidity of that cap according to inflation, supply and demand along with overall cost of production and delivery.

A vast percentage of mainaland Europe is (or was) supplied by Russian oil and gas fields which as now been locked off under sanctions thanks to the Ukraine invasion. The UK/Scandinavian oil and gas fields are making up the shortfall whilst other suppliers are assisting in that such as the Middle East who have increased their production rates. The extreme weather has added to the problems for Germany and others since they are primarily nuclear and hydro for electricity (they have no gasand they coal is not allowed to be mined). Water levels in all of the Alpine lakes and dammed reservoirs are well down on level due to the extreme temperatures, that has a knock on effect on causing problems for the hydro plants.

Moves are on the way to restart fracking across the UK and Ireland, licences have been issued to get that sorted....just as soon as the police get off their behinds and deal with the protesters more effectively at fracking sites, oil refineries, distribution depots etc.

The UK is better off in regard to supply of utilities, the profiteering side by the companies is worldwide, not just unique to the UK and it will take a huge amount of legislative changes to remove the money from the companies and their bosses after the 1999 changes by Blair/Brown cos they are locked into law...and with the lobbyists working both sides of the house of commons on behalf of the utility companies it might be easier to pull teeth with pliers than reducing the profitability and shifting it to the consumers.

 

[Wills]

You don't need heating in aquariums tween March and October and even during the other months its only during the night when temps tend to drop that heating might be required.

Fridges and freezers that are not jam packed full use way more electricity cos its hard work for the motors to chill or freeze spaces so scrunch up newspaper or stuff a pillow or blanket into the freezer and fridge when its getting empty tween shopping trips

Turn radiators and storage heaters off in rooms that are not used constantly or at all. Insulate the loft spaces better (average life for loft insulation is 10 years, it should be replaced or doubled up in that time)

Open windows and allow fresh air in since constantly stuffy warm rooms sweat, condensation builds up, causes mold and makes the heating work harder so costs more

I have no heat source in my flat...my previous houses had no heat source. It is not necessary to set the thermostat at 25 or more indoors, its wasteful. Thermostat set at 18-20 is more than adequate. We don't get cold winters in the UK.

I use aquarium lighting in my kitchen as security lighting at night....glued a strip of blue aquarium LEDs to the wall under the cupboards. I have battery powered PIR lights in the hallway and bathroom and kitchen so instead of using the electric lighting, I use battery lighting instead that automatically comes on and off when I get up during the night etc

You have to be creative and you have to check yourself when thinking about turning the thermostat up...go get another jumper on instead of doing the easy thing and turn up the heating.

When I was a kid there wasn't central heating in our home, it was coal fires and a tin bath (the island was a bit behind the times but we never went without, might not have been brand new but handmedowns and charity shop is often better anyway)

There is too much emphasis on having the latest gadgets and gizmos and the best labels and the best toys etc thesedays. It used to be called buying stuff on the tick...credit....its bad, its very very bad cos people lose the ability to live within their means, it stops people saving for the proverbial rainy day when a bigger bill than expected comes in and it screws priorities

Holidays and hobbies are awesome but not on credit and not before the bills are paid and the freezer/fridge is full. And there is no shame in buying secondhand PS3 and buying clothing at charity shops etc. We throw stuff away too easily....cos it is the wrong colour or not fashionable anymore etc

I never had birthday parties or presents when a kid, no christmas presents as a kid, family holidays were to the local holiday camp on the island for a week or to my aunt and uncle's place in Rotterdam and Casablanca (they paid, it was on my uncle's ship cos he was a captain for SMIT). I learnt to appreciate what I had not what Joe Bloggs had down the road. I learnt to budget and to save and thanks to dad I learnt to fix my own cars, rebuild engines and do DIY.

Kids thesedays haven't got a clue about what real life is cos they get catered for their every whim and demand by parents wracking up credit lines and debt.....cos they can't say "NO!" to their kids.

I'm sorry but seeing these sulking adults in the media saying they can't afford bills etc when they have a full Sky subscription, high end appliances, foreign holidays and the kids go to school with their iPhones and Nikes.....serves them right. If they want to live on credit, great you do that...but don't cry to the media cos you can't afford to pay the bills.

I know where you are coming from but there are a lot of people that don't live on credit cards with the latest designer things and everything you describe that are still going to face 80% energy hikes next month. I think to blame it all on people living life of excess as you describe isnt accurate. There will be a lot of people that have lived well within their means over the last 10 years or so and their only 'sin' is their tariff has come to an end and energy bills are about to climb significantly.

But I think we've covered this area of the topic quite a bit - and we can agree there are going to be some people who can live more financially responsibly

I thought about this one last night. I don't think you can know the cost beforehand. I'm in nowhere near the energy bind you're in, but when I moved here I left the Canadian province with the cheapest electricity and came to one on the higher end of costs. I tried to calculate my costs, but there are so many variables that the only answer I had was "more". I'll see after a winter running the fishroom. So far so good, but all I can do is look at costs after a winter and decide if I need to cut corners in various places I've identified.

The picture will be complicated by weather, for one thing. A mild winter will give me a different view than a cold one would. I set a budget and if I go beyond it, I have to make changes.

I did not get an 80% rise in costs though.

There are going to be a lot of second hand tanks hitting the market in England. Europe is where the heart of this hobby beats, in terms of innovation and commitment from aquarists, and if energy costs knock people out of the hobby, conservative USA and Canada will suffer by extension. Who knows, maybe the Florida fishfarm industry will come back to life as shipping costs (also up by several times what they were even before the Russian attack on Ukraine) make Asian fish out of reach.

Its going to be interesting for sure, I imagine the government are going to have to step in at some point. They have given help at different levels for different income groups and property types. The 80% raise in costs is the price cap we have in the UK which is kind of government controlled by an ombudsman. The cap due to raise again in January to £5.3k up from £3.5k next month. Its really a cap to protect the energy company profits rather than protect consumers.

One thing I was told elsewhere was that 1 minute every 10 minutes is probably accurate average for an aquarium in a room between 15 and 20 degrees - aiming to achieve low 20s. Which means 144 minutes a day or just over 2 hours.

So I think my 2 bigger tanks would be something like £26 - £37 for the 300 litre and £17-£22.50 for the 100 litre- upper figure is if I allowed 2 mins per 10 for the heater. A total of £43-£60 per month. Obviously if we have a cold winter that would increase - and thats a flat rate assuming across all 3 months.

I know my old 6 foot 512 litre tank had 2 FX6s and 2 300 watt heaters and that cost about £25 per month, I think I worked that out in 2017? So that would make sense, roughly based on the price difference between now and then.

Wills

 

[Deleted member 149562]

@Wills

Why use expensive external filters and are not just expensive to buy but cost a bit to run?

An Aquael Turbo 2000 is rated at 27 watts with a 2000 lph fully adjustable for an aquarium of over 350 litres...purchase cost around £60 each, two Turbo 2000's would cut the costs down significantly over one FX6

An FX6 is 41 watts each and costs close to, if not over £300 to buy

The Aquael is tiny by comparison and has alot more media combinations and setup combinations....its old school, easy and cheap to get spare parts etc

Aquael.pl - internetowy sklep akwarystyczny!

Najwyższej jakości sprzęt akwarystyczny od polskiego producenta - bogata oferta z szybką dostawą!

www.aquael-aquarium.co.uk

 

[GaryE]

I know that since I am now retired, and have a budget I stick to, I made some changes. I had a chance to get some Geophagus recently, but heating a tank large enough? Nope. Not going there.

This is very obscure, but you like Central American Cichlids, right? Take a look at collecting articles and check temperatures. I've had my ankles in Guatemalan streams and pools under the canopy, with very large Cichlids scattering as my shadow passed, and that water was maybe, at most 20-22 degrees. There were big Cichlids, several livebearers and a characin there, all thriving. The air temperature was oppressive (as was the militaristic government there) but the water was cool.
Temperature creep is something I've watched with interest, as every decade we've increased ideal temps for many species. Sometimes, what you read is several degrees above natural conditions on a seasonal basis. Since my energy costs are not awful, I am more concerned with humidity from heated tanks, but the less energy you spend needlessly, the better.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

If concerned about running costs of aquariums, look at getting cheap and cheerful internal filters and mothball the externals over the winter months. It isn't a false economy since the media used on the electricity munching externals can be utilised on the cheap and cheerful internals, thus not losing the good bacteria etc

Cut the lighting intensity and hours down....dimmer lights are less expensive than full intensity, the lights themselves last longer and no harm is done to plants

Insulate the back and sides of aquariums and only put heaters on at night in winter...daytime the human body along with other items in the home keep the temperatures up (plus any direct sunshine). Aquarium heaters do not need to be on 365 days a year. As @GaryE mentioned above, the temps in aquariums does not always equate to natural environment (my Rams produce offspring in 25 degrees and are thriving which is against what the books say)

If you feel chilly and the heaters are off in the aquariums...you get a jumper for yourself and a blanket for the aquarium

 

[Wills]

@Wills

Why use expensive external filters and are not just expensive to buy but cost a bit to run?

An Aquael Turbo 2000 is rated at 27 watts with a 2000 lph fully adjustable for an aquarium of over 350 litres...purchase cost around £60 each, two Turbo 2000's would cut the costs down significantly over one FX6

An FX6 is 41 watts each and costs close to, if not over £300 to buy

The Aquael is tiny by comparison and has alot more media combinations and setup combinations....its old school, easy and cheap to get spare parts etc

Aquael.pl - internetowy sklep akwarystyczny!

Najwyższej jakości sprzęt akwarystyczny od polskiego producenta - bogata oferta z szybką dostawą!

www.aquael-aquarium.co.uk

The FX4 comes with the second hand tank I want so saving money that way - getting about £1500 of kit for £400. But I have been thinking about a bit air sponge. I'm not going to stock the tank to full capacity so wont need it all. But for comparison the FX4 is 30 Watts so not too far off the Aquaels you mentioned.

I know that since I am now retired, and have a budget I stick to, I made some changes. I had a chance to get some Geophagus recently, but heating a tank large enough? Nope. Not going there.

This is very obscure, but you like Central American Cichlids, right? Take a look at collecting articles and check temperatures. I've had my ankles in Guatemalan streams and pools under the canopy, with very large Cichlids scattering as my shadow passed, and that water was maybe, at most 20-22 degrees. There were big Cichlids, several livebearers and a characin there, all thriving. The air temperature was oppressive (as was the militaristic government there) but the water was cool.
Temperature creep is something I've watched with interest, as every decade we've increased ideal temps for many species. Sometimes, what you read is several degrees above natural conditions on a seasonal basis. Since my energy costs are not awful, I am more concerned with humidity from heated tanks, but the less energy you spend needlessly, the better.

Its a really good point and I'm already one step ahead of you https://www.climatestotravel.com/cl... never gets,Here are the average temperatures.

It does not give exact temperatures for the lake - plus Nics are from a few locations so some flexibility but the winter months depending on location air temperatures are between 22-17c in winter. Would water temperatures be lower? I think we'll have the thermostat set to 18c and I've found some free kingspan insulation panels on facebook that I'm going to get to put under the tank and on the back permanently plus a lid for over night/when the lights are off - think that could make a real difference.

Very jealous of your trip to Guatemala, Lake Nicaragua is on my bucket list for sure - though not sure my wife would agree...

Wills

 

[Deleted member 149562]

@Wills

If you read the Aquael link I gave you, you will see that part of the kit is a large sponge that can be used with the media can or on its own with the powerhead along with venturi that can be used on all combinations

So you would not need to buy extra sponge filtration etc cos it comes part and parcel in the box....you just have to choose the combination

Secondhand FX4....you can still buy two Turbo 2000 or two Turbo 1500 for a fraction of that and still be quids in....and without needing to buy extra sponge filtration on top.

Read the link properly and fully......there is zero need to spend massive amounts on filtration purchasing or running costs, least not til the current worldwide financial situation eases.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

People getting hot under their collars cos the energy cost predictions (and that is all they actually are...predictions) is fine within reason

But when alternatives and options are given that would cut costs down at least take the time to read up about them and seriously consider them before dismissing them

People get so fixated on big brands that they miss or ignore similar items that cost less to buy and run cos they think its going to be too cheap and cheerful or below the standard they are used to having when in reality its absolutely not going to break down in a week

My ex husband was terrible, he insisted on branded food...Heinz, Fray Bentos, Birds Eye etc.....he never got it when married to me cos I got the supermarket own label and he never even noticed

Well quite frankly either people want to tighten their belts or they don't....and being fixated on big brands is not helping the financials one iota, its not being realistic in the current predicted circumstance. Talking the talk about how hard things might get is one thing but actually altering the spending routine and doing things differently on a day to day basis and buying cheaper goods seems to be a bridge too far. A few tweaks to the lifestyle do not hurt...and they might even be more enjoyable than first assumed.

 

[GaryE]

@wasmewasntit I'm not sure who you think is ignoring your advice and not reading carefully - I don't think @Wills ran out and bought that gear after you posted!

I am the cheapest cheapskate who has ever actually and loudly been called "El Cheapo" around here. My fishroom runs on mostly homemade filters (brandname vegetable juice bottles cut and drilled, and hidden - the no name ones were too flimsy) run off of an energy efficient central air system. One motor to rule them all, although the inscription on it isn't Elvish, but Japanese.

My NostrilGarydamnus prediction for the future is a lot of us, all over the world, will be improvising systems or buying cheaper gear. I was talking to a store owner recently and he said he would no longer be importing the high end gear as with shipping costs, it was priced out of the local market's range, and there could be no profit margin for him. If Wills were a crazy spender, I don't think this thread would have been started. It's about economizing, after all.

For the past 15-20 years, I have kept one killie, Chromaphyosemion biteniatum, that likes water warmer than my room has on general offer. So I treat is as a seasonal fish, and only breed it in summer. I do the same with my Papua New Guinea rainbows - early summer spawning, warm growout - to market in the later Fall, with the remaining ones experiencing a temperature slide that does them no harm.

It isn't ideal, but as fishkeepers, we have to adapt. Or perish. There's a lot of that about.

 

[Wills]

The FX4 comes with the tank Im hoping to get on Monday so its a package not just a second hand filter. Its not about them being a certain brand (though I have no issue with going for branded - though obviously we will disagree there) and it is a good deal overall, the light is Aquael though. The sponge filter I mentioned was even more basic than the one you sent, just an airstone and the typical sponge filter set, the Hygger air pumps are super efficient and quiet these days. Hygger is a good value range too.

Plus the FX4 is only 3 Watts larger than the Aquael so not a significant saving really. I've had a lot of Fluval FXs in the past and they have always been reliable.

I'm not trying to argue or ignore thing your've said really I know things come across in text weird sometimes so hopefully thats just it. I am taking your advice onboard, going second hand came from our last chat about tanks and thats why I've not gone for new kit. I was tempted by the range you mentioned but this one is the 300 litre tank I want and is about the same total cost for their 240 litre tank, an Aquel Turbo and Aquel Leddy light.

Wills

 

[Dexter Leopard Frog]

I am also in UK and trying to be less wasteful with regards to electricity in the home.
My fish,
4 Angels
1 RTS
1 Leopard Frog pleco
2 Bristlenose pleco
2 Mollies
a Platty and a Guppy
All share a 180litre community that sits around 78-80deg F

My question is what temperature do you guys think i could safely reduce this to without stressing them? I want happy fishes but prefer not to waste power if i don't need to. Thanks for any advice.

 

[Colin_T]

24C in winter and let it go up naturally in summer.

 

[Dexter Leopard Frog]

24C in winter and let it go up naturally in summer.

Ok thanks but in Scotland going up naturally would be much lower than 24C, I pretty much always need to use heater. 24C I will make my new target thanks.