Dwarf Cichlids

[Far_King]

Well, I'll start this off with some sad news.
 
My beloved Red Tail Black Shark passed away a few days ago.  I'd had her quite some time, she was an enormous thing and she dominated the bottom of the tank but she was worth having as she was so spectacular.
 
Now she's gone my thoughts are turning to other fish to occupy the void he's left, as per the title, Dwarf Cichlids or possibly Rams.
 
I've got a shortlist:
 
Blue Rams (or possibly Bolivian depending on which I see when I go shopping).
Apistogramma Agassizii
or Kribensis
 
I love them all but I can only have one type to avoid potential conflicts.
 
The only other bottom dwelling fish in the 200 litre tank they'd go in is a Gold Nugget Pleco.
 
What would you go for?  Any preferences or tips in keeping the above gladly received

 

[Essjay]

My choice would be the apistos. And with 200 litres, a 1m 2f trio, or even a quartet. You just need 1 cave per female plus one extra to give them some degree of choice.
 
Rams - I've tried rams but can't keep them alive.
Bolivian rams - very hard to sex in the shop as they are so young. However, if you can find a definite pair these would be another fish I would look at. You can sometimes spot pairs in the shop tank if you watch the fish for a while. I had a pair a few years ago until the female got a piece of gravel stuck in her throat (note - be careful if you have gravel with all three on your list) and the male just pined away after she died.
Kribs - I've read too many tales of how aggressive they get if they breed.
 
 
Edit to add - my avatar is a female Apistogramma cacatuoides that was bred in my tank. I have a soft spot for apistos.

 

[Far_King]

That's very helpful, thank you.  I've always wanted Kribs, and rams are stunning but having seen the apistos lately I'm leaning towards those.
 
The substrate is pea gravel - I'll keep a close eye on them and hopefully any pieces are too large for them to get in their mouths.  
 
I saw your avatar earlier on another thread, beautiful fish.  1M 3F sounds reasonable.  The females don't get stroppy with each other as long as they have their own areas?  They don't pair off either like Angels or Kribs?

 

[Essjay]

Some apisto species do pair off, but those like agassizi and cacatuoides are harem breeders - females have small territories and males have larger territories which includes several of the smaller female territories. Your 200 litre tank should have enough space for 3 females, unless it is a very odd shape with a small footprint. Apistos are cave spawners so you need some sort of cave. I had one female that favoured a hollow on a piece of wood about 6 inches off the tank floor. You just need to have the caves spread out evenly across the bottom of the tank.
 
The gravel I has was quite fine, and bolivian rams have bigger mouths than apistos so you should be OK. It was that incident that made me change all my tanks to sand.

 

[DoubleDutch]

Did you check the Laetacara-species ?

 

[Far_King]

Did you check the Laetacara-species ?

 
I hadn't until now.  Curviceps are particularly nice looking fish.  But again, would that be a pair or male plus several females?

Some apisto species do pair off, but those like agassizi and cacatuoides are harem breeders - females have small territories and males have larger territories which includes several of the smaller female territories. Your 200 litre tank should have enough space for 3 females, unless it is a very odd shape with a small footprint. Apistos are cave spawners so you need some sort of cave. I had one female that favoured a hollow on a piece of wood about 6 inches off the tank floor. You just need to have the caves spread out evenly across the bottom of the tank.
 
The gravel I has was quite fine, and bolivian rams have bigger mouths than apistos so you should be OK. It was that incident that made me change all my tanks to sand.

 
Harem breeding is fine.  I can always get some more bogwood for caves.  There's a couple already and I don't think my Gold Nugget would want to share his.

 

[Akasha72]

can I add a vote for curviceps? I think you know I had a breeding pair and I'm desperately looking to replace them ... although whether I will get another pair or a small bachelor group is still undecided. 
 
The only issue I can see her is the substrate - especially for the bolivian ram if you go with a breeding pair. This fish digs pits in the sand to keep their wrigglers in and I'm unsure what they will do with gravel.
 
I've not kept apisto's but some of them are really lovely. They are on my wish list
 
Kribs ... I'm with Essjay here. I've also heard that they can really nasty if they breed and that level of aggression is not something everyone can deal with. If you like a peaceful community tank I'd avoid the Kribs and look to either curviceps or bolivians - both of which are reletively peaceful 
 
I'll leave you with this .... get curviceps
 

 
Who can resist that face 

 

[Far_King]

Haha, 

I wondered when you'd be along with your Curviceps vote lol
 
Well....I do like them, and from what I've seen and heard of yours, they're lovely fish to keep.
 
I'll make you a deal...when I go shopping it'll be between the Apisto or the Curviceps and it'll depend purely on the stock available at the time as to which I get.
 
I won't be going for a couple of weeks but I'll keep you updated and surprise you when I do
 
One thing, is it difficult to find or establish a breeding pair?  Will Curviceps generally just get one with each other or can they be picky?

 

[Akasha72]

well I just picked what I thought was a male and what I thought was a female and within a few weeks they'd paired up. They spawned about 5 or 6 times but with a community tank they never got chance to raise any young. I took some away and raised them seperately though.
 
Eventually my pair fell out though and the female would hide from the male. He was still love-struck though. I did wonder for a while though if my female had lost her vision because she would bang into things easily
 
All that said, they are very peaceful and they are a lovely fish and they change colour when in breeding mode ... now that is something worth seeing. They go from green/brown/yellow/red to dark blue/purple/red 
 

 

 

[Far_King]

They do sound lovely.
 
I think they may stand a chance of breeding successfully in my tank, although there is a Pleco and a couple of really large Amano shrimp that may have other ideas.
 
My Panchax have never managed to spawn or raise more fry in that tank so unlikely I guess.  I will keep an eye out for these guys but I know my LFS stocks Apistos.

 

[Akasha72]

curviceps is a bit of a rarity so getting them might be difficult ... it seems to vary from area to area. Here in North Yorkshire they are like hens teeth

 

[DoubleDutch]

I love L.dorsigera

 

[Akasha72]

I saw them DD at a fish store I went to on Saturday. This fish store is the only known one in my area to sometimes carry Curviceps. Dorsigera is a lovely looking fish but it's not curviceps

 

[ZoddyZod]

Don't go near 'Blue' Rams unless you have very soft, acidic water. Bolivians are a great fish. I've kept many and in a 300L I've had up to five with no issues - they bicker often but never anything serious. I'm pretty sure I had 5 males as well - no hints of breeding and territories established for each.
 
Not a dwarf, but Thorichthys ellioti is a beauty and would be fine with your size tank and stocking
 
Had a wild Curviceps once. Amazing colours - then one day it took a dislike to my Angel and had to be removed

 

[Akasha72]

 
Had a wild Curviceps once. Amazing colours - then one day it took a dislike to my Angel and had to be removed

 
Really? Wow, I'm shocked. My pair were so shy they couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag!