Dechlorinater works pretty much instantly, don't think there is any need to leave standing for any length of time really.
Dosing Prime On Top Of Fish
- Thread starter Kaidonni
- Start date
Well, I just wanted to leave it to warm up a little. I wasn't around to put the water, and if I'm going to be messing with warm water from the tap, I'd rather be there just to make sure. As it's a big departure from my previous routine, and I worry so much anyway, it's a first step.
I did buy a new Nutrafin ammonia test (due to running out of the previous one), and it came out at 0ppm yesterday on the tank. The API ammonia is difficult to read, almost always looks like there's a tinge of green; I do compare the API to a tap test, and while it looks like one might be more vivid/stronger a colour than the other, they are almost identical, and it's difficult to say what kind of difference it is - the tap test should be at 0ppm (which leads me to believe the test may not give a completely yellow colour at 0ppm). The Nutrafin nitrite test still comes out at...something quite low (again, below 0.1ppm, very difficult to gauge exactly where it might register). The API nitrite appears to provide some colour difference against a tap test, but it's very difficult to say exactly what it is; certainly nowhere near 0.1ppm, again.
I did buy a new Nutrafin ammonia test (due to running out of the previous one), and it came out at 0ppm yesterday on the tank. The API ammonia is difficult to read, almost always looks like there's a tinge of green; I do compare the API to a tap test, and while it looks like one might be more vivid/stronger a colour than the other, they are almost identical, and it's difficult to say what kind of difference it is - the tap test should be at 0ppm (which leads me to believe the test may not give a completely yellow colour at 0ppm). The Nutrafin nitrite test still comes out at...something quite low (again, below 0.1ppm, very difficult to gauge exactly where it might register). The API nitrite appears to provide some colour difference against a tap test, but it's very difficult to say exactly what it is; certainly nowhere near 0.1ppm, again.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Lets play the math game again. Lets say one does a 50% water change with water that is 10 degrees F colder. The most that can do is to lower the tank temp by 5o. But we add water back not in one big shot but by pouring or pumping it in. Between the heat of the lights, the heater in the tank, and the pump and filter motors, a tank will not even drop by that full 5 degrees by the time it is refilled.
And many fish are seasonal spawners. This means they normally experience rapid temp changes during the changeover of the seasons which occurs pretty rapidly.
And many fish are seasonal spawners. This means they normally experience rapid temp changes during the changeover of the seasons which occurs pretty rapidly.
I turn the power off while I'm cleaning the tank, and never use the lighting. I suppose I could actually unplug just the filter but leave the heater plugged in, that might help a little.
I am grateful for all the help, and I know my hang-ups and worries must sound really strange. I do worry a lot about messing things up even more, so I act very carefully - sometimes too carefully.
I am grateful for all the help, and I know my hang-ups and worries must sound really strange. I do worry a lot about messing things up even more, so I act very carefully - sometimes too carefully.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Kai- it is better to worry and learn than not to worry and to end up with sick or dead fish, I never turn off filters and I place heaters horizontally or at an angle in tanks such that when I remove 50% of the water the heaters remain pretty much submerged. If I do not leave a light on the tank,I cannot see what I am doing. This is especially true in planted tanks.
Fish do learn. When we get new ones in a new tank they start out pretty skittish. They bolt at movement, they hide during tank work etc. Then a few months later the same fish head for their feeding areas when we approach the tank expecting food and we often have to shoo some of them them out of the way when vacuuming.
Fish do learn. When we get new ones in a new tank they start out pretty skittish. They bolt at movement, they hide during tank work etc. Then a few months later the same fish head for their feeding areas when we approach the tank expecting food and we often have to shoo some of them them out of the way when vacuuming.
I would shut off both filter and heater during a water change. If the heater is not fully submerged, but some of it is exposed to air, it may very well crack. I leave the light on, this is better for you and the fish. Sudden changes in brightness affect fish a lot, and they require about 30 minutes to adjust. So by turning off the light, and then crashing around in their tank, you are actually shocking them a fair bit. I wait an hour after the tank light comes on before I will start a water change, or any work in or even around the tank. One way to easily deal with this is to have a small power bar that has a switch [you can get these for a couple dollars at Home Depot] with just the filter and heater(s) plugged in it; this bar is then plugged into the main outlet, where the light is also plugged. Turning off the small power bar shuts off the filter and heaters but not the light.
Some people use cold water for water changes, with no hot/warm at all. I would find this terribly cold, given my very cold tap water [just did a test now as I was curious, and it is running at 50F or 10c], and while they say their fish have no issues, I prefer to use a mix of cold/hot and have the temp a bit cooler than the tank; I use my hand to adjust the tap temp for this, with a small container of tank water with me so I can check back and forth.
If I used just cold, with 50% changes, the temp in my tanks would easily lower by close to 15 degrees (applying TTA's math). That means that my 78F tank would lower to 63F, and within the space of a few minutes. Also, the heater has to work very hard to bring this back to 78F and it would take hours. Sounds too risky to be advisable.
Temperature changes in the Amazon rainforest are not sudden, but gradual. There is the diurnal change, over a 24 hour period, and fish seem OK with that. But remember also that in most watercourses, the water is not uniform temperature, but cooler in the middle and lower down, and warmer at the surface and near the banks, and fish are able to move around to suit their whims. Also water heats and cools much more slowly than the air. The seasonal fluctuations are significant, but this too is gradual and once a year, not every week. And I would suggest that the difference is probably minimal compared to what we have been discussing here. Goulding et al (1988) gave the annual temperature range for the Rio Negro to be from 28 to 31c (82-87F) which is not much, and this river floods into the forest for hundreds of square miles during the wet season. The ground is warm, also affecting the water temperature.
I have a 2-3 degree F drop using my method. I almost always see spawning from more than one species next morning.
Some people use cold water for water changes, with no hot/warm at all. I would find this terribly cold, given my very cold tap water [just did a test now as I was curious, and it is running at 50F or 10c], and while they say their fish have no issues, I prefer to use a mix of cold/hot and have the temp a bit cooler than the tank; I use my hand to adjust the tap temp for this, with a small container of tank water with me so I can check back and forth.
If I used just cold, with 50% changes, the temp in my tanks would easily lower by close to 15 degrees (applying TTA's math). That means that my 78F tank would lower to 63F, and within the space of a few minutes. Also, the heater has to work very hard to bring this back to 78F and it would take hours. Sounds too risky to be advisable.
Temperature changes in the Amazon rainforest are not sudden, but gradual. There is the diurnal change, over a 24 hour period, and fish seem OK with that. But remember also that in most watercourses, the water is not uniform temperature, but cooler in the middle and lower down, and warmer at the surface and near the banks, and fish are able to move around to suit their whims. Also water heats and cools much more slowly than the air. The seasonal fluctuations are significant, but this too is gradual and once a year, not every week. And I would suggest that the difference is probably minimal compared to what we have been discussing here. Goulding et al (1988) gave the annual temperature range for the Rio Negro to be from 28 to 31c (82-87F) which is not much, and this river floods into the forest for hundreds of square miles during the wet season. The ground is warm, also affecting the water temperature.
I have a 2-3 degree F drop using my method. I almost always see spawning from more than one species next morning.
Actually, I never use the light at all now, and haven't for years. The room lighting is sufficient for me to see what I'm doing, although I could probably put them on for longer prior to a clean (even when the lamp near the tank has been on for a short while); I've also been having some assistance off my father now on weekdays, and I might need to advise him the same. He turns on the big light in the middle of the room, which I have been avoiding, only using the two smaller lights on the back wall which are over the room from the tank. I also think the tank light would be far too bright for the Clown Loach. Most of the time there's a lamp on not far from the tank, casting light into the tank, and the Clown Loach seems happy enough with that.
That said, I have been conducting weekend cleans during the day, so haven't bothered with any of these lights at all.
That said, I have been conducting weekend cleans during the day, so haven't bothered with any of these lights at all.
RobRocksFishTank
Moved On
I agree with almost all of what Byron said, but I usually err on the side of caution and advise against any sudden temperature change. Having a sudden temperature drop, as opposed to a rise, at water change is risky. Sensitive fish are more tolerant to a rise than a fall. 2 - 3 degrees down might be too much for some fish making them vulnerable to ick. Larger drops increases the risk.
If you find thermometers hard to use for matching temps, you might find your hands can tell temperature difference very effectively as long as you do it within a few seconds or so. I've also used a stick on thermometer on the spigot.
If you find thermometers hard to use for matching temps, you might find your hands can tell temperature difference very effectively as long as you do it within a few seconds or so. I've also used a stick on thermometer on the spigot.
Kaidonni said:
If I'm reading you correctly, in that you never have a tank light on over the tank itself, then yes, I would say you are likely OK doing work. I wouldn't be able to see nearly sufficiently, with all my chunks of wood and plants, without the light, and being planted the tank light is on 8 hours daily on a timer, so I do the water changes an hour after the light comes on.
It is also important to not stress fish out too soon after light, but also just before darkness. The fish need time to adjust both ways, whatever the light. This is a very involved topic which we have discussed in a couple of threads fairly recently, here's a link to one of them; my post #3 went into detail on certain aspects:
http
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/436735-are-fish-sensitive-to-daynight-light-cycles/Byron.
I'm still having a few silly moments...fed a small piece of algae waifer this evening, only I broke it up and left it on some kitchen towel first as by the time I was going to feed, I would have washed my hands in soap and messed with other things (just letting it roll off the kitchen towel into the tank gets me out of worrying there). It went on to the top of the wooden cabinet the tank is on, on which tank water and other things have been (I've never polished it or anything, so no worries there), and I used kitchen towel to get it back on another piece of kitchen towel to avoid directly touching it; now I'm worried it will have picked up bacteria or something else from the wood, and harm the Clown Loach...I don't even know where the piece went or if he's eaten it now, although I suspect he probably has - I'm hesitant to do what I did last time and shine a flashlight into the tank to locate it and remove it, as he probably has plenty of time to eat it and may already have (and if he hasn't, trying to locate it myself will probably prevent him further...I worried too much last time, and he's taken up to an hour to be done with Tetra Pleco Multi-Waifers of greater size).
As it's in keeping with my concerns at the start of this thread...
I feed de-thawed de-shelled pea to the Minnows every now and then to vary their diet up, but I don't boil the peas or do anything special; I just cut the pea up into small pieces and put these pieces into the tank in small amounts (one or two at a time) so the Minnows don't waste any of it. I leave the peas to de-thaw for about an hour or so, maybe longer (and hour and a half today), and I assume the tiny bits of ice melt into the peas as well as the kitchen towel and mug I keep the peas in during this process. If it makes any difference, the peas are of the Birds Eye Field Fresh - I'm not poisoning the Minnows, am I? I do wonder about any chemicals that might have been used on the peas in the fields... Not that I've noticed the Minnows acting ill after feeding them pea, in fact they are very lively and nippy with one another.
I feed de-thawed de-shelled pea to the Minnows every now and then to vary their diet up, but I don't boil the peas or do anything special; I just cut the pea up into small pieces and put these pieces into the tank in small amounts (one or two at a time) so the Minnows don't waste any of it. I leave the peas to de-thaw for about an hour or so, maybe longer (and hour and a half today), and I assume the tiny bits of ice melt into the peas as well as the kitchen towel and mug I keep the peas in during this process. If it makes any difference, the peas are of the Birds Eye Field Fresh - I'm not poisoning the Minnows, am I? I do wonder about any chemicals that might have been used on the peas in the fields... Not that I've noticed the Minnows acting ill after feeding them pea, in fact they are very lively and nippy with one another.
No issues with chemicals that I am aware of. I will leave this for others to comment, but I think it is generally advisable to blanch vegetables before feeding, more to soften them and make them more palatable and easy to eat rather than anything else.
Byron.
Byron.
I usually cut the pea up into tiny pieces that they can gobble up whole, I prefer it not going to the gravel. It's not something they can fight over much, I do try to make sure they've all had something (or hope - you can lead a Minnow to pea, but you can't make it eat it, and sometimes the one male just misses out completely). At that point, the bits might be so small that softening any further might not make much of a difference.
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