Dog Control Laws And Pit Bulls

[TigerIssey]

I hope I've completely got the wrong end of the stick - it just came across a bit as being worried only about responsibly bred/tested Staffies, and no emphasis on the huge amount of other breeds and crosses this is going to effect. Thing is, if you're against it completely, we need to stand up and be counted NOW. This is happening NOW.

Kathy I think you have, I used bull breeds as an example and realise now I phreased some things wrongly. I think some parts of what I said have been misunderstood mainly because we are both passionate about the same thing!! I have used bull breeds as an example because my knowledge / and experience is mainly bull breeds and I should have stated that I was using them as specific examples to illustrate the points I was trying (badly it seems) to make. Yes I am totally against BSL however was trying again badly its seems to say regardless of breed an incident (such as this attack) should be judged on an individual basis.

I do not believe all dogs of a breed should be made to be muzzled just because they are a specific breed.

I do however believe that a specific banned dog brings the wrong publicty, where often the press can make mass hysteria, to specifcally staffords as joe public has not got a clue about the difference between the two, this then usually brings up other bull breeds selectively highlighted by the press.

I will see if there is one closer to me than Liverpool, I cant drive to far at the moment following an injury in a car accident last year. Will look at the link. I have been pretty much out of things the last year with drugs and nerve blocks to the shoulder otherwise I would probably have already known about them. I would however help with anything I could from home. I am still temporarily part time due to the accident.
If my bad wording has upset you in any way I apologise, that was not my intention I vented very quickly and did not word things correctly. I just fiercly love my breed and know that they could end up in Danger along with many others. Germany Canada etc break my heart. Too many breeds native to this country are rare, I do not want to see them die out. I get very heat up about fighting, I have split fights not expected in my home, I cant stand the thought of two dogs being made to do that. This is the thing that riles me so much about bull breeds, that when pit bulls hit the news, dogs with fighting history get battered by the press and our point is never put across properley.

 

[t.ropical_m.istx3]

california trying to pass that law to exterminate all pitbulls is retarded. not all of them are bad and the government people need to understand that. the only ones that are mean (same as all other dog breeds) are the ones that were either trained to be mean or were abused. nearly any animal can harm you, whether they mean to or not. if any state wants to have these laws, it's unfair to have them just on dogs. i'm against the laws 100%. animal lover to the end

 

[KathyM]

I hope I've completely got the wrong end of the stick - it just came across a bit as being worried only about responsibly bred/tested Staffies, and no emphasis on the huge amount of other breeds and crosses this is going to effect. Thing is, if you're against it completely, we need to stand up and be counted NOW. This is happening NOW.

Kathy I think you have, I used bull breeds as an example and realise now I phreased some things wrongly. I think some parts of what I said have been misunderstood mainly because we are both passionate about the same thing!! I have used bull breeds as an example because my knowledge / and experience is mainly bull breeds and I should have stated that I was using them as specific examples to illustrate the points I was trying (badly it seems) to make. Yes I am totally against BSL however was trying again badly its seems to say regardless of breed an incident (such as this attack) should be judged on an individual basis.

I do not believe all dogs of a breed should be made to be muzzled just because they are a specific breed.

I do however believe that a specific banned dog brings the wrong publicty, where often the press can make mass hysteria, to specifcally staffords as joe public has not got a clue about the difference between the two, this then usually brings up other bull breeds selectively highlighted by the press.

I will see if there is one closer to me than Liverpool, I cant drive to far at the moment following an injury in a car accident last year. Will look at the link. I have been pretty much out of things the last year with drugs and nerve blocks to the shoulder otherwise I would probably have already known about them. I would however help with anything I could from home. I am still temporarily part time due to the accident.
If my bad wording has upset you in any way I apologise, that was not my intention I vented very quickly and did not word things correctly. I just fiercly love my breed and know that they could end up in Danger along with many others. Germany Canada etc break my heart. Too many breeds native to this country are rare, I do not want to see them die out. I get very heat up about fighting, I have split fights not expected in my home, I cant stand the thought of two dogs being made to do that. This is the thing that riles me so much about bull breeds, that when pit bulls hit the news, dogs with fighting history get battered by the press and our point is never put across properley.

Please don't apologise, I'm sorry - I read this thread again this morning and I think we're definitely singing from the same hymn sheet. I'm so sorry, I get very passionate about this. I think you raise some very valid points about the flack Staffies get too.

 

[TigerIssey]

Kathy at least we now know we are on the same side. Like I said we are two people who are very passionate about our dogs.
Lets just hope we do not go down the same road as other countries have!!

 

[ClaireBear]

Pitbulls are not bad dogs. I know quite a few of them. Thier naturally extremely loyal, friendly dogs. The problem is they are big and powerful, and when not raised properly they can do alot of damage. The problem does not lie within the breed, it lies with the people who make them mean, through abuse, lack of training ect. I don't think that banning the breed will do any good. The people that want aggressive fighting dogs will own them anyway, or find another breed to ruin. What we need to fight for is stronger laws, so that these people finally learn a lesson.

 

[KathyM]

It was announced yesterday that Merseyside Police will be going ahead with an amnesty within 7 days. This is going to be a death sentence for many loving family pets. We need to spread the word that the amnesty is purely voluntary and that people shouldn't panic and take their dogs down to be PTS. Emails to MPs, councillors, newspapers, TV, etc expressing protest against the amnesty are needed NOW. I spent all day emailing around yesterday, the more people protest, the more our voice will be heard.

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Councillor Mrs Patricia Williams (Lib Dem) - Oxton Ward
126 Holm Lane, Oxton, Birkenhead, Wirral, Merseyside, CH43 2HT
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Councillor Mrs K. Wood (Con) - Wallasey Ward
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[email protected]

Knowesley councillors found here: http/www.knowsley.gov.uk/your_council/council/

 

[~T~]

Wow another attack

http/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/taysid...ral/6248533.stm

Oh wait it happened last month.

 

[KathyM]

http/www.deednotbreed.org.uk/

 

[madmom]

A few years ago a young woman was mauled to death outside her apt. The dog owner bought the dog from someone in prison who bred these dogs for fighting. The dog was running loose in the buildings hallway totally insupervised. Not to long ago a little girl had her face ripped apart by two dogs while waiting at the school bus stop. The dogs? Also running loose. The leash laws need to be inforced. . If you must let your dog out keep it in a fenced yard. Always walk your dog on a leash. Unfortunately many people think it's ok to just open the door and let them out. I live in an area where there is no leash law just a property law i.e. dog can be loose on your property. There are no fences per se here as I live out in the boonies and any fences here are to hold in livestock, or to keep small kids from wandering. I live next door to a rottie which fortunately likes me. But this same dog won't let the UPS man out of his truck. Just because you live in the country doesn't mean you can just let the dog run. If the dog gets hit then these people get mad at the driver for killing or wounding their dog. People need to be more responsible for their pets.

 

[LisaLQ]

So true, Madmom, and not only because of dangerous dogs, but because of the risk of your pet getting lost, stolen or injured/killed on the streets and the nuisance of roaming animals causing unwanted pups (to be fair, that's six of one and half a dozen of the other - all pets should be spayed and neutered, whether straying or not).

Over here in the UK, with dog theft getting more and more common (particularly in working breeds like lurchers, and pedigree dogs), most folks recommend you dont even let your dog out in a secure garden without supervision. There's always some numpty who doesn't give a hoot though that boots their dog out of the front door in the morning, and screams for it to come back in on a night. We've got a local one, he's called Jasper (the dog), and he's always out - good job Sky thinks he's the Brad Pitt of the dog world rather than lunch (he is cat sized, she is cat unfriendly), even better job that there's always a fence in between them, and she's well and truly spayed!

 

[TigerIssey]

Over here in the UK, with dog theft getting more and more common (particularly in working breeds like lurchers, and pedigree dogs), most folks recommend you dont even let your dog out in a secure garden without supervision.

I agree with this, there have been so many pedigree dog thefts in this country where the primary reason is to hold the dog ransom. Dog thieves seem to think that pedigree dogs are more likely to be insured and as such most insurancies offer rewards as part of the insurance if your dog is stolen. Many breeds face this problem however staffords have also been stolen for fighting and or breeding fighting dogs. I know so many show stafford owners that have been victim to thefts of this type at some point. Even if for some reason your dog gets lost, if found by the wrong people, they will not return the dog.

This gets you into a state of mind where you will not leave your dog unsupervised even in a "secure garden". In addition to 6ft high double thickness stone walls and 6 ft non see through gate I also have another gate that remains closed just in case. I also have my front garden double gated in case I am outside with the dogs or they get out of the front door for any reason. I live on the lancashire moors, my main problem is that if someone did try to steal my dog, there would not be any witnesses or anyone to disturb the thieves.

Some may think me paranoid, however if this is what it takes to protect my pride and joy I will.

When training my dogs, I took them to an ex police dog trainer that also trains drugs dogs etc. He instilled in me that I should put my dog on a lead if I saw another one in the distance or even a child, if the other owner leashes their dog at this point too, there is no danger of any dogs attacking another dog. In practice this common courtesy does not happen. It drives me mad, leashes should be used alot more than people use them now, many accidents could be avoided if people had this common courtesy. Of course many people want to socialise their dogs with others, this can be done easily, but you should ask the other dog owner if socialisation is possible with their dog. I met owners of dogs who would refuse to leash their dogs when I asked them to, their dogs off lead annoying my leashed stafford. I have been given the answer that their molly or jim is great with other dogs, however what if mine is not. I have done all I can by leashing my dog, however some people just do not want to be responsible. It would in the other owners eyes be my fault if their dog got bitten, however if they have not got control of their dog, how can mine be at fault. I have managed to pursuade some of this however others just don't want to know.

I have been asked by many parents whether my dog is friendly, their child would like to pet it. This I have not got a problem with, my dog is leashed I have control and I explain to the child he is very friendly but can be boistrous. I hold the dog on a short lead getting down beside him whilst the child strokes him, he loves this attention, but I would not leave him off lead in a park where there are children, if I have control, the child can play. This is the type of situation where an off lead dog could potentially cause a child damage, don't put your dog in that situation ever. I also strictly believe that all dogs should at all times be supervised with younger children (even your dog in your own home), some teenagers are ok, however I would assess the dog and teenager before I considered this. It is not that I don't trust the dog, I don't trust the child either, I would not want to end up with a situation that hits the news.

This is common sense to me, however many dog owners are like new fish owners, they have not researched before they get the dog. Biggest mistake you can make, and also one that ends up with high numbers of rescue dogs.

Owners are usually at fault in situations where another dog or child is attacked, do as much as you can to avoid putting your dog in a situation it cannot cope with. A dog will either fight or flight (instilled natural response), either situation is avoidable if you have control of your dog at all times.

http/www.deednotbreed.org.uk/

 

[fenwoman]

A few years ago a young woman was mauled to death outside her apt. The dog owner bought the dog from someone in prison who bred these dogs for fighting. The dog was running loose in the buildings hallway totally insupervised. Not to long ago a little girl had her face ripped apart by two dogs while waiting at the school bus stop. The dogs? Also running loose. The leash laws need to be inforced. . If you must let your dog out keep it in a fenced yard. Always walk your dog on a leash. Unfortunately many people think it's ok to just open the door and let them out. I live in an area where there is no leash law just a property law i.e. dog can be loose on your property. There are no fences per se here as I live out in the boonies and any fences here are to hold in livestock, or to keep small kids from wandering. I live next door to a rottie which fortunately likes me. But this same dog won't let the UPS man out of his truck. Just because you live in the country doesn't mean you can just let the dog run. If the dog gets hit then these people get mad at the driver for killing or wounding their dog. People need to be more responsible for their pets.

leash laws are not the answer. For me personally it isn't any good since I live in a remote rural area and when I excersize my (friendly and well trained) dog, I drive to astretch of riverbank way out in the wilds, and let them gallop to their heart's content. How are city dwellers with no large garden, supposed to excersize their dogs properly ? Or should all dogs be doomed to a sedate amble on a leash, never allowed to run hard and stay fit?
My dogs are kept with a secure fenced area when we are at home but still like to gallop along the riverbanks and have a swim etc.
The problem in the main seems to stem from young people, usually men, owning a powerful dog which they don't bother to train. Perhaps there should be a law whereby people under the age of 25 should have to pass a competence test if they want to own certain breeds?

 

[KathyM]

Perhaps there should be a law whereby people under the age of 25 should have to pass a competence test if they want to own certain breeds?

This would be breed specific legislation - that suggestion should be put forward for ALL dogs (and people of all ages), not just "certain" breeds. I would strongly oppose more BSL. Its also worth noting that not all "bad" dog owners are under 25.

 

[TigerIssey]

leash laws are not the answer. For me personally it isn't any good since I live in a remote rural area and when I excersize my (friendly and well trained) dog, I drive to astretch of riverbank way out in the wilds, and let them gallop to their heart's content. How are city dwellers with no large garden, supposed to excersize their dogs properly ? Or should all dogs be doomed to a sedate amble on a leash, never allowed to run hard and stay fit?

Leash laws are not an answer, but are common courtesy. I agree with you wholeheartedly about city dogs, mine was once one. We ended up driving quite a way every weekend so he could get that run. Weekdays he got walked various ways around the estate we lived on but on a leash. This walking did have a bonus of keeping his nails short however, it also gives the opportunity to do some training on lead with the dog.

Weekends were different, we would go wherever we knew there to be few dogs, Cannock Chase was good however you did have to know where the nearest vets was for adder anti-venom.

Now he gets to run loose on a friends farm, lots of space and no other dogs about. I do think common courtesy should be adhered to in areas where there are many dogs walking about and especially in parks with children. Leashes should be used more automatically by more people there should not need to be a law.

The problem in the main seems to stem from young people, usually men, owning a powerful dog which they don't bother to train. Perhaps there should be a law whereby people under the age of 25 should have to pass a competence test if they want to own certain breeds?

You may like to say before owning all breeds as that is breed specific legislation. It won't stop the other over 25 yr idiots that are just as much a danger as those under 25 with an out of control dog.

 

[fenwoman]

Perhaps there should be a law whereby people under the age of 25 should have to pass a competence test if they want to own certain breeds?

This would be breed specific legislation - that suggestion should be put forward for ALL dogs (and people of all ages), not just "certain" breeds. I would strongly oppose more BSL. Its also worth noting that not all "bad" dog owners are under 25.

I understand that not all under 35's are bad dog owners. My own son was a case in point. However, being involved on the sharp end of rescue as I am, most of the problems with certain breeds occur when the dogs are mainly owned by young men with no sense of responsibility and where the dog breeds are so called macho ones.
I personally am a huge fan of the breeds in question such as staffies, rotties etc. I onwed a very dominant giant schnauzer until last year. Not many of the chavs would own one of these bacuse of the £1000 price tag compared with as little as £150 for a rotties or staffie pup but they are similar in temperament to a rottie. My Harley was a pleasure to own and totally reliable thanks to my dedication and determination that this powerful potentially dangerous German guarding breed should be a good example to people. I would love a rottie pup to bring up to the same standard. I don't particularly have anything agains any breed, but the facts remain that certain breeds have an 'image'. Usually those same breeds need a firm hand and lots of sensible socuilisation and training . They attract young men who want to appear 'macho' and who are unwilling to act responsibly with regard to training etc. I do not ever advocate that a breed is 'bad' and that they should be sungled out for banning, but I do strongly believe that there should be breed specific targetting as regards to unsuitable people owning them. I believe that this would actually save the breeds. Not directed at bull terriers or rotties, but any large, cheap to buy , dogs with a strong guarding instinct.
I see this as being the most workable way to solve the problem. All the people who say "punish the deed not the breed" don't seem to have a viable alternative. The fact that they refuse to acknowledge that certain breeds have certain traits is woolly minded to me.
If a 20 year old man who wants to have a staffie or staffy cross, had to be assessed for his ability to handle and train the dog , and questioned as to why he chose this particular breed, in order to get a licence, I'm convinced it would make a difference. I am not interested in punishing the owner of a dog which killed a child. I'm more interested in preventing the attack in the first place.
This test should be applied to all breeds over a certain weight or size , most of the large breeds with a strong guarding instinct and would include crossbreds.
Nearly every single bad tempered staffy, staffy cross, rotty, rotty cross, bandog, american bulldog etc, which has come into rescue at my friend's rescue kennels, was owned by an owner who was under the age of 25.
As much as I dislike draconian breed specific laws, I feel that there must be a compromise and people who choose to own those breeds (like myself) should be able to prove that we are fully able to do so safely. You have to have a licence to own a gun, or drive a car safely, why not to own a large potentially dangerous dog?