Does "Bottled" Bacteria Really Help Cycling?

[SledDriver]

I'm not sure if anyone posted this, but Dr. Tim, himself, did a seminar at MACNA several years ago.

I've, very successfully, rapidly cycled many saltwater aquariums. That being said, just dumping the bottle of bacteria in the tank and calling it a day does not work. There is a process.

One thing that I have found to be a must is to always have a diatom filter on hand. I use the Marineland Magnum Polishing filter. Charge it with some Diatomaceous Earth and put it in the tank. The diatoms will clear up within the hour.

Tips and Notes:
Note: Diatomaceous Earth is a known carcinogen in it's solid state. I highly recommend wearing a mask when handling it. However, once it is in the water it is benign. It will not harm you or the fish once wetted.
You can pick up DE at Walmart and other Supermarkets, usually in the yard and garden section with the pesticides. Personally, I bought a big bag of it from a local pool store. Same price and you get 50x the amount.
Note 2: The DE filters clog fairly quick. You can wash off the filter and scrub all the grime and used DE out of it. I spray it with a hose in my back yard. Every few uses I do a ten minute 10% bleach soak. Don't leave it in the bleach soak too long as it will start to deteriorate the plastic. Ask me how I know.
Tip: After the filter is charged and you take it out of the bucket, I recommend sticking it into a bucket of fresh water and starting it for about 10-15 seconds. The reason for this is to spray out any residual DE that didn't adhere to the filter. A little will always spray in the tank, but less will if you use this tip. It is not an issue if it sprays in the tank. The DE will dissipate over time.

I hope this helps!

 

[OldFishKeeper]

I'm not sure if anyone posted this, but Dr. Tim, himself, did a seminar at MACNA several years ago.

I've, very successfully, rapidly cycled many saltwater aquariums. That being said, just dumping the bottle of bacteria in the tank and calling it a day does not work. There is a process.

One thing that I have found to be a must is to always have a diatom filter on hand. I use the Marineland Magnum Polishing filter. Charge it with some Diatomaceous Earth and put it in the tank. The diatoms will clear up within the hour.

Tips and Notes:
Note: Diatomaceous Earth is a known carcinogen in it's solid state. I highly recommend wearing a mask when handling it. However, once it is in the water it is benign. It will not harm you or the fish once wetted.
You can pick up DE at Walmart and other Supermarkets, usually in the yard and garden section with the pesticides. Personally, I bought a big bag of it from a local pool store. Same price and you get 50x the amount.
Note 2: The DE filters clog fairly quick. You can wash off the filter and scrub all the grime and used DE out of it. I spray it with a hose in my back yard. Every few uses I do a ten minute 10% bleach soak. Don't leave it in the bleach soak too long as it will start to deteriorate the plastic. Ask me how I know.
Tip: After the filter is charged and you take it out of the bucket, I recommend sticking it into a bucket of fresh water and starting it for about 10-15 seconds. The reason for this is to spray out any residual DE that didn't adhere to the filter. A little will always spray in the tank, but less will if you use this tip. It is not an issue if it sprays in the tank. The DE will dissipate over time.

I hope this helps!

Back in the day, I had a Vortex DE filter...worked great!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The discovery of the Amonia Oxidizing Archaea was made in 2006 (If I remember right). It was found under a rock in a public, salt water aquarium. This triggered a lot of research in the ensuing years. There are now many papers on this topic if you would like a few links I would be happy to provide them.

The Nitrospira discovery cane later and has also triggered subsequent research. I got curious about all of this not long after I got my first tank. It took me a while to find Google Scholar. Since my fisrt fishless cycle which I did with household ammonia, a lot has changed in terms of what is known.

What was thought to be going on in our tanks as far as cycling related issues is concerned has change greatly. This is the nature of science. It is not static and is always subject to revision as more is learned.

What has not changed is that there is ammonia created in a tank and it has to be dealt with of the fish will die. The nitrogen cycle has not changed a lot either. The deatails of how it progresses may have been expanded and built upon, but the need to deal with it has not.

FYI- one of the ways farious strains of the relevant bacteria.arcaea are delineated is by their affinity for ammonia. This refers to what concentrations they will thrive at and what their capacity to process nitrogen compounds are. This, when combined wih the concentrations of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate are determines which specific microorganisms will dominate.

The levels of ammonia generated in aquariums is not a high level relative to other situations. We do not pay much attention to all of this once a tank is cycled. In a tank low levels of ammonia re constantly being created 24/7. Rotting organics and fish exhaling produce it. And this is handled as it is created by the microorganisms and, if present, live plants. Once a tank is properly cycled most of us do not monitor ammonia or nitrite. Some, like myself, do not even other with testing nitrate because our maintenance habits mean it doesn't accumulate.

I will just stop with the above by ending with this information. I am a bit unusual in how I deal with the digital age. I am a privacy nut. If you look at all of my bookmarks you would notice this. The greatest number of links are to research papers. Many of these relate to cycling issues, but all of them are relevant to our hobby. Just to give you an idea, here is a list of all my bookmark folders and some single links on these topics (some of the folders contain links to as many as 50 papers or sites):
bacteria, bacterial Survival, cycling, Denitrification, DrTim, FINS, fish acclimation, fish info, fish meds and diseases, fish online, Fish stress, fish vids, nitrate, nitrite, Nitrospira, Plant feeding, Plants-Wood, pleco in the wild, test kits, toxicity, Overview of Aquarium Fishes: Aquarium Fishes: Merck Veterinary Manual, SeaChem says its the autotrophs.

I can also say that I have met a few scientists and corresponded with a few of the lead authors on a research paper to ask them a Q. As long as one shows respect for the scientists, they will usually respond even to non-professionals like me.

Edited to add the below paragraph:

I just apotted the new post re Dr. H. and salt water. The bacteria in fresh and salt water are not identical. Some of them are but others are unique to the salinity levels. If you peruse Dr. Tim's site you will notice he sells 3 versions of his bacterias. One for FW, one for SW and a third for Bracckish. If anyone is interested, there are papers on this topic as well. For my part I am FW only and would not comment on cycling SW or Brackish tanks.

One big difference realates to nitrite. This is much less of a concern in SW since it contains a plentiful amount of chloride. This block nitrite from entering a fish. We can use a bit of salt to deal with nitrite in our FW tanks because it is sodium chloride. Science now considers that any research done on nitrite and fish must contain data on chloride levels or else the research is considered to have little or no value.

edited to change nitrate to nitrite in the final paragraph and fix dome spelling.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Re DE filtration. It is primarily for mechanical filtration. I used DE in my H.O.T. Magnums in which I ran the Micron cartridge. It does a good job of polishing the water, but if I added a few tablespoons of DE, it made the water so very clear.

The downside to a DE filter is it tends to glog faster than other media. My experience taught me that a proper Mattenfilter would produce similar results. Most of what cuases out water not to be crlear is organic in nature. Inside an established Mattenfilter one will have critters that consume a lot of the organic waste. What remains is a form of mulms that settles in the space behind the foam. I spend about 2 minutes sucking that out as well as running a suphon hose across the from side of the foam. This grabs some of the most recent debris the filters has pulled onto its surface before it moves inside. I basically remove and clean the foam on the Mattens every 3 -5 years.

The tanks where have Mattens are so clear that you can read the date on a quarter placed against the back glass while looking though the front glass and all the water.

edited to fix 2 typos

 

[I Like Rare Fish]

Not the same as bottled bacteria but I manually added ammonia to my tank to kickstart the cycle, from then on all my new tanks have stemmed from that cycle

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The way I "met" Dr. Stephan Tanner of Swiss Tropicals was the result of a paper he wrote and the research paper on PLOS One which was the earliest one on the presence of Archaea in Aquariums. I concluded that Archaea not bacteria were the primary ammonia oxidizers in tanks. I have never agreed with this opinion. After a back and forth with Dr, Tanner i ended up with the thinking that what might be in tanks in respect to ammonia oxidiers depended on what might be arriving in one's source water. The it is could be one or the other or a combination of both.

However, everythin got turned upside down when it was discovered that the Nitrospira which were deemed the ones to be oxidizing nitrite in aquariums and which were patented by Dr. Hovanec and Marineland, actually were able to process ammonia straight through to nitrite.

So from a decade before time I set up my first tank in early 2001 and today, the facts surrounding what was hadfling ammonia etc. in tanks changed drastically as did how we approach cycling a tank. What has not changed is the fact that the way ammonia, nitrite and even nirtate in tanks can be handled is by microorganisms and/or plants and algae.

Also, one of the things Dr. Hovanec did in his research was to include one of the commercial bacterial additive available at the time. It contained Nitrobacter winogradskyi which is what is commonly found in waste water treatment.

What did Winogradsky discover?

He isolated the first pure cultures of the nitrifying bacteria and confirmed that they carried out the separate steps of the conversion of ammonia to nitrite and of nitrite to nitrate. This led directly to the concept of the cycles of sulfur and nitrogen in Nature.

Dr. Hovanec ran several sets of tanks side by side including one with no additives as the control. One set of tanks had a commercial starter product which contained Nitrobacter winogradskyi. When all the tanks were fully cycled, the one with the commercial additive had no Nitrobacter winogradskyi. But it had Nitrospira. And to get there took almost the same time as a fishless cycle from scratch.

This is the abstract from the Nitrite bacteria I linked in my posts above it was published in Jan. 1998. The commercial started was Cycle by Hagen. But let us remember that this research was done in 1997. What is in Cycle likley has changed since then? Plus, at that time everybody thought Bitrobacter were the ones in tanks. Dr. H. et al disproved that about 2 years earlier.

ABSTRACT​

Oxidation of nitrite to nitrate in aquaria is typically attributed to bacteria belonging to the genus Nitrobacter which are members of the α subdivision of the class Proteobacteria. In order to identify bacteria responsible for nitrite oxidation in aquaria, clone libraries of rRNA genes were developed from biofilms of several freshwater aquaria. Analysis of the rDNA libraries, along with results from denaturing gradient gel electrophoresis (DGGE) on frequently sampled biofilms, indicated the presence of putative nitrite-oxidizing bacteria closely related to other members of the genus Nitrospira. Nucleic acid hybridization experiments with rRNA from biofilms of freshwater aquaria demonstrated thatNitrospira-like rRNA comprised nearly 5% of the rRNA extracted from the biofilms during the establishment of nitrification. Nitrite-oxidizing bacteria belonging to the α subdivision of the class Proteobacteria (e.g., Nitrobacter spp.) were not detected in these samples. Aquaria which received a commercial preparation containing Nitrobacter species did not show evidence of Nitrobacter growth and development but did develop substantial populations of Nitrospira-like species. Time series analysis of rDNA phylotypes on aquaria biofilms by DGGE, combined with nitrite and nitrate analysis, showed a correspondence between the appearance of Nitrospira-like bacterial ribosomal DNA and the initiation of nitrite oxidation. In total, the data suggest that Nitrobacter winogradskyi and close relatives were not the dominant nitrite-oxidizing bacteria in freshwater aquaria. Instead, nitrite oxidation in freshwater aquaria appeared to be mediated by bacteria closely related to Nitrospira moscoviensis and Nitrospira marina.

In reading Dr. Hovanec's papers I was always struck by the fact that the amount of ammonia oxiding bacteria was pretty low. It would have to be pretty powerful in terms of how much ammonia it could process. Or back then nobody was looking for Archaea. Most likely it was due t the Nitrospira developing a bit slower. but when they did they started processing ammonia plus any nitrite produced by the pure ammonia oxidizers.

I stopped cycling tanks some years ago. I normally never had to set up just one tank. The need was for several tanks. Either summer tanks would be opened up on the terrace or else I was going to a weekend even as a seller. So I needed tanks and cycled filters to go into them. I cycle filters not tanks. the challenge is when I cycle filters for 6 -8 tanks which hold 20 to as much as 50 gals. I do it in a small tank- a 29 or maybe a 40B. If you think a regular fishless cycle can be tricky.

The concentration of filters all using ammonia, inorganic carbon and a few other things they need means testing is several time a day at the peak. In the end I am adding as much as 25 ppm of ammonia a day into the bio-farm tank. But not all at once- in multiple doses. And there are bags of crushed coral an water changes every other day. It take me about 10-12 days to have all the filters able to handle overstocked tank instantly.

Since these tanks Almost never hold any plants (they may at events), 100% of nitrogen issues are usually handled by the microorganisms.

 

[TC33]

From the last weeks experience, I can tell that without any bacterial enhancer, the tank in question would have taken an eternity to cycle and required a lot of water changes, from testing and doing water changes and testing.

I used Fluval biological enhancer. Not really by choice, but my favourite LFS has noting else... And "you will thank me !" they said. "Feed in filter input"... Already knew that.

Yayaya my eye... placebo effect... But it was available in cheap 2 ounces... So why not try...

I know the amount of ammonia produced in a well fed betta tank is negligible, But after 8 days, it was rising too much for sanity.

The stuff cut the ammonia rise under the foot and racked nitrites in under a week. with one water change.

For 4.99$. I'm really pleased with the results.

This stuff is not bacteria, Nitrifying bacterias are everywhere. It only enhances their condition and helps them thriving. "was also mentionned".

I mean... It says on the bottle "immediate fish introduction".. My test is a drop in the ocean.

But I would suggest to try. Because the way it was going, I feel I have saved a lots of water changes there.

Suprised to see this, and glad it worked for you.

That being said, I did try the same product for my new tank, and I did not see the same results. Still took 2-3 weeks for my tank to be fish suitable. Which I am sure would of been the case without it.

So worried they make the statemen timmediate fish introduction for people that may not test.

I may of had a bad batch of it of course.

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello. I know I've put in my opinion on the subject of cycling a new tank several times. But, here goes again. I don't have filters in my tanks, so I can't use them to instantly cycle a new tank. What I do is set up the tank and fill it using APIs Water Treatment and Quick Start. I let the tank run for a couple of days to settle the water temperature. I add a few of whatever fish species I like and just remove and replace half the water every few days. I always use the same brand of water treatment and bacteria starter. I dose both according to the instructions. That's it. I get to enjoy my fish pretty much right away. After the tank runs for a few weeks, I generally add a few more fish. I always keep larger tanks and keep the number of fish small. As far as feeding, I feed a variety of dried foods roughly every other day.

10

 

[MaloK]

Suprised to see this, and glad it worked for you.

That being said, I did try the same product for my new tank, and I did not see the same results. Still took 2-3 weeks for my tank to be fish suitable. Which I am sure would of been the case without it.

So worried they make the statemen timmediate fish introduction for people that may not test.

I may of had a bad batch of it of course.

I'm always a little on guard when buying these products. They have a high probability to be spoiled during transport.

But, your results are no bad at all considering that I cycled tanks without anything in the past and it normally took from 6 to 8 weeks before a complete cycle.

Both tanks I kicked started with it where pretty small and have a low bioload, but still cycled completely in 8-12 days.

I'm probably too old school but, I find that amazing compared to what I experienced in the past.

 

[FranciscoB]

With much respect to Dr. Tim, the whole point is mute with me.
No need for liquids or potions good or bad. If I need to set up a new tank, I always have plenty of seeded media to do it. Large quantities. The rest, water changes will cover it. Free (not really) but not paying pocket cash and not having to believ

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello again. The key to setting up a new tank or maintaining one that has been running for many years is treating the water to detoxify whatever the public water people put into the tap water to make it safe to drink and to remove dissolved nitrogen from the waste material before it ever builds up in the water. This means using a water treatment and removing and replacing most of the water every few days and not feeding the fish very much. The problems start to show up when we feed too much and neglect our water change responsibilities.

10

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Stephan Tanner of Swiss Tropicals was the result of a paper he wrote and the research paper on PLOS One which was the earliest one on the presence of Archaea in Aquariums.

I didn't realize Stephan had papers out on that topic. I'll have to pester him to get copies of any related papers he has. Good heads up! Thanks!