Does "Bottled" Bacteria Really Help Cycling?

[OldFishKeeper]

One old trick is to smell the filter sponges.

If they have a strong fresh earthy smell.

Everything is working. Any other kind of fool smelling is not good.

Quite right but, I am not "Any other kind of fool" !

 

[MaloK]

Haha! Corrected the typo there...

 

[OldFishKeeper]

Haha! Corrected the typo there...

No problem, I thought you might be referring to the turkey but my wife is not cooking that until tomorrow!!! Hope you don't mind my play on the word "fowl" .

That reminds me, Merry Christmas to you and all the other Canucks up there, eh?

 

[Essjay]

@Lcc86 The API bacterial starter does contain the correct ammonia eaters but it cannot contain the correct nitrite eaters as use of those has been patented. It does contain some nitrite eaters, but not the ones which grow in fish tanks; they are the ones which grow at high nitrite levels. Perhaps that's why you have a nitrite reading now?

 

[OldFishKeeper]

@Lcc86 The API bacterial starter does contain the correct ammonia eaters but it cannot contain the correct nitrite eaters as use of those has been patented. It does contain some nitrite eaters, but not the ones which grow in fish tanks; they are the ones which grow at high nitrite levels. Perhaps that's why you have a nitrite reading now?

Maybe I should bottle the water I squeeze out of my sponge filters?

 

[Essjay]

Generally speaking, filter squeezings are not regarded as a good source since the bacteria are tightly bound to surfaces, but squeezing the media might dislodge a few. Actual media donation is considered a good way to shorten a cycle or even instantly cycle a tank.

 

[Lcc86]

@Lcc86 The API bacterial starter does contain the correct ammonia eaters but it cannot contain the correct nitrite eaters as use of those has been patented. It does contain some nitrite eaters, but not the ones which grow in fish tanks; they are the ones which grow at high nitrite levels. Perhaps that's why you have a nitrite reading now?

That would make sense! It never gets above .5ppm thankfully. Just keeping on top of it.

 

[Ichthys]

@Lcc86 The API bacterial starter does contain the correct ammonia eaters but it cannot contain the correct nitrite eaters as use of those has been patented. It does contain some nitrite eaters, but not the ones which grow in fish tanks; they are the ones which grow at high nitrite levels. Perhaps that's why you have a nitrite reading now?

Actually the bacteria that “grow at high nitrite levels” along with the bacteria that grow at high ammonia levels, are the ones that cycle tanks. Once the tank is cycled and the ammonia and nitrite are down to very low levels, these bacteria largely get replaced in the filter by Archaea.

Generally speaking, filter squeezings are not regarded as a good source since the bacteria are tightly bound to surfaces, but squeezing the media might dislodge a few. Actual media donation is considered a good way to shorten a cycle or even instantly cycle a tank.

Squeezing the media won’t dislodge many, if any at all, from the actual media, but the solid gunk that collects in filters is also surface area, and contains bacteria / archaea.

 

[OldFishKeeper]

I am always looking to be more informed. I read through this link and found many reasons just to use existing sponge filters to cycle new tanks. Take some time, read through it and draw your own conclusions...(and thanks to @Ichthys for adding the term archaea).

https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/2-12-beneficial-bacteria/#:~:text=There%20are%20several%20general%20types,bacteria%20and%20the%20nitrifying%20archaea.

 

[Back in the fold]

I don’t play around with chemicals , medications or any of the other aquarium potions they sell . I am lucky to live in a town with really good water that still treats with chlorine only . I age my water the old fashioned way and as far as cycling goes . . . I’ve never paid any attention to it . I set up an aquarium and let it sit without fish for a week and then introduce them slowly . I stock very lightly and feed sparingly . Never had any problems in 58 years . The main reason I don’t use potions is because all my aquariums are twenty gallons and less . I think that small amount of water is too touchy to be playing with things that are potentially poisonous .

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Take some time, read through it and draw your own conclusions...

Sometimes, it's worth taking Dave's statements in absolutes with a grain of salt. Or a bit more. Lots of good information on that site, to be sure! But mixed in are some staunch... opinions. I think it would help folks if he added references to support his positions - and he's been asked to do it. Don't hold your breath. Don't get me wrong, he's a good guy and wants to help people. But as is the case with many folks on the internet, sometimes people get entrenched. Something to be aware of with any single source.

 

[OldFishKeeper]

Sometimes, it's worth taking Dave's statements in absolutes with a grain of salt. Or a bit more. Lots of good information on that site, to be sure! But mixed in are some staunch... opinions. I think it would help folks if he added references to support his positions - and he's been asked to do it. Don't hold your breath. Don't get me wrong, he's a good guy and wants to help people. But as is the case with many folks on the internet, sometimes people get entrenched. Something to be aware of with any single source.

That's way I wrote "draw your own conclusions". Happy Holidays!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Actually the bacteria that “grow at high nitrite levels” along with the bacteria that grow at high ammonia levels, are the ones that cycle tanks. Once the tank is cycled and the ammonia and nitrite are down to very low levels, these bacteria largely get replaced in the filter by Archaea.

Soryy, but this is not the case unless one overdoses ammonia. The very first paper Dr. Hovanec ultimately had published was his Ph.D. thesis. He was looking to find the bacteria known to be in much higher ammonia/nitrite situations in tanks, this was the conventional wisdom at the time (mid-1990s). So he did all the invectigating int a lab and he could not find any of these bacteria.

So he went to his supervising professor and reported this problem. The prfessor said Dr. H. was new to all this testing and must have done it wrong and to do it again. Dr, H. did and got the same results. I have read all of the papers Dr. H. was part of publishing. I have read throguh his patent application as well. So here is a link to his papers relative to cycling, read them for yourself. Or at least read the abstract and, possibly, the conclusion.

Comparative Analysis of Nitrifying Bacteria Associated with Freshwater and Marine Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 62, No. 8: 2888-2896.​

Hovanec, T. A. and E. F. DeLong. 1996.
Comparative Analysis of Nitrifying Bacteria Associated with Freshwater and Marine Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 62, No. 8: 2888-2896.Read More

Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 64, No. 1: 258-264.​

Hovanec, T. A., L. T. Taylor, A. Blakis and E. F. DeLong. 1998.
Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 64, No. 1: 258-264.Read More

Identification of Bacteria Responsible for Ammonia Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology, Dec. 2001, p. 5791-5800​

Paul C. Burrell, Carol M. Phalen, and Timothy A. Hovanec.
Identification of Bacteria Responsible for Ammonia Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology, Dec. 2001, p. 5791-5800Read More

Next, these papers were all published between 1996 and 2001. There have been some fairly amazing new discoveries since then. The first was that another microrganism besides bacteria was oxiiding ammonia. These are: "Archaea is a domain of single-celled organisms. These microorganisms lack cell nuclei and are therefore prokaryotes. Archaea were initially classified as bacteria, receiving the name archaebacteria, but this term has fallen out of use. Wikipedia

The Archaea are frequently found in aquariums and may even be the dominant ammonia oxizers. The second discovery was even more intersting.

In a building housing research facilities they had an aquarium in their basement. it was not there for research. Hoever at some point the got curious and the result ws the discovery that the Nitrospira bacteria Dr. H. et. al. had discovered processed nitrite to nitrate were also able to process ammonia straight through to nitrate.

I have been lazy in terms of staying up on currrent research. But I just took a look and discovered an paper on this topic, If you have a scientific curiosity and a willingness to read things you wont always quite understand, you can get a lot of info you will understand. This is my approach as a non-scientist. I looked at this briefly and bookmarked for later.

Mehrani, M.J., Sobotka, D., Kowal, P., Ciesielski, S. and Makinia, J., 2020. The occurrence and role of Nitrospira in nitrogen removal systems. Bioresource technology, 303, p.122936.
Nitrospira Paper

 

[OldFishKeeper]

Soryy, but this is not the case unless one overdoses ammonia. The very first paper Dr. Hovanec ultimately had published was his Ph.D. thesis. He was looking to find the bacteria known to be in much higher ammonia/nitrite situations in tanks, this was the conventional wisdom at the time (mid-1990s). So he did all the invectigating int a lab and he could not find any of these bacteria.

So he went to his supervising professor and reported this problem. The prfessor said Dr. H. was new to all this testing and must have done it wrong and to do it again. Dr, H. did and got the same results. I have read all of the papers Dr. H. was part of publishing. I have read throguh his patent application as well. So here is a link to his papers relative to cycling, read them for yourself. Or at least read the abstract and, possibly, the conclusion.

Comparative Analysis of Nitrifying Bacteria Associated with Freshwater and Marine Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 62, No. 8: 2888-2896.​

Hovanec, T. A. and E. F. DeLong. 1996.
Comparative Analysis of Nitrifying Bacteria Associated with Freshwater and Marine Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 62, No. 8: 2888-2896.Read More

Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 64, No. 1: 258-264.​

Hovanec, T. A., L. T. Taylor, A. Blakis and E. F. DeLong. 1998.
Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 64, No. 1: 258-264.Read More

Thanks for the info. I will certainly review it but, am finding good success with sponges from cycled aquariums and test kits!

 

[Ichthys]

Soryy, but this is not the case unless one overdoses ammonia. The very first paper Dr. Hovanec ultimately had published was his Ph.D. thesis. He was looking to find the bacteria known to be in much higher ammonia/nitrite situations in tanks, this was the conventional wisdom at the time (mid-1990s). So he did all the invectigating int a lab and he could not find any of these bacteria.

So he went to his supervising professor and reported this problem. The prfessor said Dr. H. was new to all this testing and must have done it wrong and to do it again. Dr, H. did and got the same results. I have read all of the papers Dr. H. was part of publishing. I have read throguh his patent application as well. So here is a link to his papers relative to cycling, read them for yourself. Or at least read the abstract and, possibly, the conclusion.

Comparative Analysis of Nitrifying Bacteria Associated with Freshwater and Marine Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 62, No. 8: 2888-2896.​

Hovanec, T. A. and E. F. DeLong. 1996.
Comparative Analysis of Nitrifying Bacteria Associated with Freshwater and Marine Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 62, No. 8: 2888-2896.Read More

Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 64, No. 1: 258-264.​

Hovanec, T. A., L. T. Taylor, A. Blakis and E. F. DeLong. 1998.
Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 64, No. 1: 258-264.Read More

Neither of these papers makes any mention whatsoever about either archaea, or established tanks with minimal ammonia production after cycling.