do you prewash / rinse things going into your tanks???

[Magnum Man]

my stainless water change fittings arrive tomorrow, and that's the type of things I was initially thinking about... I'll be washing those components with dish soap, to remove any machining oils, before I use them... But I Also wash any resin hard scape, like my pagodas, or resin hollow logs, to remove any residue, and mold release products used during manufacture, but I even rinse live plants... I don't think it's used anymore, but think some places treated plants with a chemical to kill pest snails, that was harmful to fish, and speaking of which, I try to rinse any plants, in a quick search for snail eggs, and plastic plants aren't immune to the same mold release type chemicals as could be used on the resin products... I guess I don't typically use carbon daily, so I look at the glass box, as what it is, and try to remove anything that I don't want in it... am I too anal, or do you all do similar???

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Absolutely. I wash/rinse anything that goes into my tank. Before I even begin a water change I wash my arms up to my elbows in hot water (no soap) and dry them with a paper towel.
As far as live plants go, first is a rinse in tap water, then reverse respiration cleansing to get rid of any pest snails/hydra/algae, etc. if you have never tried it reverse respiration will take care of all pests including bacteria and give your plants a growth spurt to boot.

 

[Magnum Man]

can you describe reverse respiration

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Sure. Reverse respiration is a total game changer for live plants. I learned about it on a different forum and looked at the numerous experiments and results including microscope slides to show what was happening.



Basically what you are doing is giving the plants a 12 hour soak in seltzer water in total darkness. Seltzer water, not carbonated water like Perrier. Seltzer water has a pH of 3 which you need that low pH to kill pests. Perrier has a pH of around 6. You soak the plants for 12 hours in darkness in a container with a loose fitting lid, or a container with just a towel over it. You want it to be able to breath and release all that pressure built up from the CO2 bubbles in the seltzer water. After the 12 hour soak you float the plants in oxygenated water for 30 mins (tank water is ideal). Then you are safe to plant.



Here's why it works. When you immerse the plants in the seltzer water you are depriving anything aerobic from receiving oxygen, so it dies. When you plunge it into the freshwater you are plunging anything anaerobic into oxygen. Also the pressure in the seltzer is something equivalent to 3 atmospheres. So when you transfer the plants from the seltzer to the freshwater the change in pressure is so great that algae literally burst their cells. The same with snails and snails eggs. They literally burst and die. In addition the cavitation from all those CO2 bubbles actually will dislodge algae from plant leaves.



If you all would like a link to the actual science on this I will be happy to provide it if it's allowed.
The only residuals you have from this method are oxygen and water. No chemicals. No bleach, no H2O2, just water and oxygen.

 

[connorlindeman]

Sure. Reverse respiration is a total game changer for live plants. I learned about it on a different forum and looked at the numerous experiments and results including microscope slides to show what was happening.



Basically what you are doing is giving the plants a 12 hour soak in seltzer water in total darkness. Seltzer water, not carbonated water like Perrier. Seltzer water has a pH of 3 which you need that low pH to kill pests. Perrier has a pH of around 6. You soak the plants for 12 hours in darkness in a container with a loose fitting lid, or a container with just a towel over it. You want it to be able to breath and release all that pressure built up from the CO2 bubbles in the seltzer water. After the 12 hour soak you float the plants in oxygenated water for 30 mins (tank water is ideal). Then you are safe to plant.



Here's why it works. When you immerse the plants in the seltzer water you are depriving anything aerobic from receiving oxygen, so it dies. When you plunge it into the freshwater you are plunging anything anaerobic into oxygen. Also the pressure in the seltzer is something equivalent to 3 atmospheres. So when you transfer the plants from the seltzer to the freshwater the change in pressure is so great that algae literally burst their cells. The same with snails and snails eggs. They literally burst and die. In addition the cavitation from all those CO2 bubbles actually will dislodge algae from plant leaves.



If you all would like a link to the actual science on this I will be happy to provide it if it's allowed.
The only residuals you have from this method are oxygen and water. No chemicals. No bleach, no H2O2, just water and oxygen.

You just taught me something new. Very interesting.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

@Rusty_Shackleford
Please if you can, provide a link to any scientific papers on this and for their patent. I searched for some time on both Google Scholar and Google patents and could not find this information.

Here is my problem with this. I will assume for the moment that their method of a club soda 12 hour soak does what they claim. So now you should have snail. pest and algae free plants. You must have a tank with 0 of these things already in it. If you don't, it is only a matter of time before the benefits of the club soda soak are lost.

Next, I learned some time ago that adding new fish can bring in some of the very things one is trying to avoid using the reverse respiration. Using the same net in multiple tanks can also do this. So it seems to me that for the above method to have long term value becomes difficult.

1. You must Q all fish for some time and take steps to know the Q tank which may not use plants never has any of what reverse respiration is intended to kill. How do you do this?
2. If you have plants in a tank that did not undergo the process, you must remove them and treat accordingly before you can move them to a new tank started from day to do the process on it's plants.
3. If you have multiple tanks with plants you can never put you arms into any tank which has used the process and then into another tank where you have. To do so you must first run the process on them before you can put them into the new tank. You must sterilize your arms as well.
4. Most of us have multiple tools we tend to use in many or all of out tanks. Planting long tweezers and others and tools, a long grabber, algae pads and scrapers.
5. Assuming you start a new tank and use the process and you keep the tank algae free can you then keep algae eating fish? And if you feed them an algae based food, do we know it doesn't possibly contain any viable algal spores for those types which produce them?
6. The Google AI says "There are hundreds of different plant species suitable for freshwater aquariums." I am pretty sure they did not test this process on most of them. So, can we assume it is safe for even most of them? Might it not be harmful to some?
7. Does the process do anything to eliminate:

2. Bacterial and Fungal Infections:

• Crypt Rot: This primarily affects plants belonging to the Cryptocoryne genus, and is often caused by sudden changes in water parameters like temperature, lighting, or water chemistry.

• Bacterial Soft Rot: Can affect plants like Calla lily and yellow flag, causing water-soaked streaks on leaves and rotting rhizomes.
  
  
• Fungal Infections: Can cause various issues, including plant tissue decay and discoloration.

I am far from being a microbiologist bit I do know a few things. First, the nitrifying bacteria which we need in our tanks do not reproduce by forming spores. Instead to cope with bad times, like the absence of oxygen, they can sense this and they go into a state of dormancy. It can take up to a year in such a state for a colony of them to wake back up and get back to full working order in anything from hours to a days. Even if they lost 90% of their cells due to an extended time, the remaining 10% recover and start to reproduce. I wonder if other forms of bacteria can also work the same way?

Finally, I know that gas exchange in a tank occurs from surface agitation. So won't the bubbles in the club soda rising to the surface promote this, especially since the tanks is loosely covered and does not prevent oxygen from getting into the water?

I am not inclined to use this method. I am not setting up new tanks, in fact I am going in the opposite directs, That said, I still have going 5 planted tanks with fish and then one more 29 gal. tank temporarily holding only plants which will likely be sold as I do not need them. Anubais mostly but one huge Bolbitus I will put unto the 150 soon.

By way of example, here is a pic of that tank first set-up and trying to club soda them before they went int would have taken a lot of club soda.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

@Rusty_Shackleford
Please if you can, provide a link to any scientific papers on this and for their patent. I searched for some time on both Google Scholar and Google patents and could not find this information.

Here is my problem with this. I will assume for the moment that their method of a club soda 12 hour soak does what they claim. So now you should have snail. pest and algae free plants. You must have a tank with 0 of these things already in it. If you don't, it is only a matter of time before the benefits of the club soda soak are lost.

Next, I learned some time ago that adding new fish can bring in some of the very things one is trying to avoid using the reverse respiration. Using the same net in multiple tanks can also do this. So it seems to me that for the above method to have long term value becomes difficult.

1. You must Q all fish for some time and take steps to know the Q tank which may not use plants never has any of what reverse respiration is intended to kill. How do you do this?
2. If you have plants in a tank that did not undergo the process, you must remove them and treat accordingly before you can move them to a new tank started from day to do the process on it's plants.
3. If you have multiple tanks with plants you can never put you arms into any tank which has used the process and then into another tank where you have. To do so you must first run the process on them before you can put them into the new tank. You must sterilize your arms as well.
4. Most of us have multiple tools we tend to use in many or all of out tanks. Planting long tweezers and others and tools, a long grabber, algae pads and scrapers.
5. Assuming you start a new tank and use the process and you keep the tank algae free can you then keep algae eating fish? And if you feed them an algae based food, do we know it doesn't possibly contain any viable algal spores for those types which produce them?
6. The Google AI says "There are hundreds of different plant species suitable for freshwater aquariums." I am pretty sure they did not test this process on most of them. So, can we assume it is safe for even most of them? Might it not be harmful to some?
7. Does the process do anything to eliminate:



I am far from being a microbiologist bit I do know a few things. First, the nitrifying bacteria which we need in our tanks do not reproduce by forming spores. Instead to cope with bad times, like the absence of oxygen, they can sense this and they go into a state of dormancy. It can take up to a year in such a state for a colony of them to wake back up and get back to full working order in anything from hours to a days. Even if they lost 90% of their cells due to an extended time, the remaining 10% recover and start to reproduce. I wonder if other forms of bacteria can also work the same way?

Finally, I know that gas exchange in a tank occurs from surface agitation. So won't the bubbles in the club soda rising to the surface promote this, especially since the tanks is loosely covered and does not prevent oxygen from getting into the water?

I am not inclined to use this method. I am not setting up new tanks, in fact I am going in the opposite directs, That said, I still have going 5 planted tanks with fish and then one more 29 gal. tank temporarily holding only plants which will likely be sold as I do not need them. Anubais mostly but one huge Bolbitus I will put unto the 150 soon.

By way of example, here is a pic of that tank first set-up and trying to club soda them before they went int would have taken a lot of club soda.
View attachment 363689

There is some question whether posting the link is against TOS, so I will happily DM you the link so you can check it out for yourself.

Yes obviously using the same tools on multiple aquariums raises the possibility of cross contamination. That should be common sense. I'm sure very few that have multiple tanks sterilize equipment such as a gravel vac in-between tanks.
Pathogens and other pests can certainly be introduced via new fish added to an established aquarium, but this is why we quarantine right? Common sense should prevail here. Like never adding fish bag water into your aquarium. But I'll attempt to address your points.
#1 QT for an appropriate amount of time. Treat with meds as necessary.
#2 Your option. One of the cooler aspects of RR (reverse respiration) is you certainly can take your existing plants out of your tank and treat them at any time. If you have some BBA suddenly appear on plants, take them out, treat them, replant them. If you're confident the existing plants in your tank are pest free, go ahead and move them to the new tank.
3. I think you're talking about 1 tank with plants that has done RR, and one tank with plants where you haven't? Again common sense prevails. If you dip your arms into the untreated tank then into the treated one then yes you have a risk of cross contamination. I'm not putting my arms into an autoclave to sterilize them
4. You could always soak your tools in a bleach solution if you're that worried.
5. I have no idea if there are algae spores in algae based food. What if there were? What are you going to do about it? It's beyond your control. Concentrate on the things you CAN control. Every aquarium will eventually get some sort of algae growing in it. It's natural and no one ever said some algae is a bad thing. Now a lot of algae can be unsightly and eventually harm plants. So if we take steps like RR to limit it's introduction doesn't that give the average aquarist a better chance of success and not abandoning the hobby?
6. Not ever plant was tested no. But you will see if you read the entire thread that many families were tested, including swords, val, eloda, marimo moss balls, Anubias, crypts, Java Fern and moss, so a lot of plants were tested.
7. I'm not sure this has been specifically tested on crypt rot. Maybe you can work on this?
There is a patent on the process though not for monetary gain, but for the advancement of the hobby.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

If you want to continue to discuss this please go to Planted Chit Chat so we don't hijack this thread.

 

[BigDog]

I rinse my filters, charcoal bags, and media bags

Before I put them back into the aquarium

I only change and rinse my media bag as needed per water change

 

[Oldspartan]

Linda rinses all non-living things in water with bleach. She then uses my temp-controlled brew pot (15 gallon) and soaks them at 165F for 5 minutes. The pot drops the temp to 120 over half hour. Me, I do a quick rinse and brush and into the tank they go.

 

[fishorama]

Some of my plant clubbers soak plants in chlorinated tapwater for maybe 20 minutes. Me, I just rinse them in tap & pick off snails or eggs I find. I also rinse decor (rocks & wood) in running tap, nothing else. If I'm worried the decor was meant for reptiles & treated with "something" I'd soak in bleach & water, brush & rinse like crazy.

Something like pipe fittings, I've never used them. But I can see residual oils, etc could be a problem. I'd rinse the heck out of them after using detergent & a brush.

 

[GaryE]

I'm the cheapskate who hasn't bought any of my tank decor. I may be a fatalist, but things get in and I deal with them. All my rocks are from a saltwater beach, so I rinse them under a tap. All my driftwood has drifted where I can grab it off a river bank - I don't pick up wood til later in the summer when water levels have dropped and the run has had time to work on it. If I ever seen a great piece early in the season, it gets hosed off and sits in the sun.

Do I have snails? Yes, but they don't seem to come from the decor. They are continuations of populations from 30 years ago, and there are very few of them. Hydra have gotten in, but are easily controlled. @Rusty_Shackleford 's presented a curious idea there, and if I wanted a super aquascaped, clean tank, I would try it. I don't need to refer to a scientific paper and I take it as a hobbyist experiment in something that there probably isn't a great scientific need for. I tip my hat to a clever idea and then go about adding microfauna to my tanks. I would say half the plants I have originated with collections from local water bodies.

I am concerned about detergents getting in, and don't like using biocides like bleach. So far, I have never introduced anything that would be as harmful as cleansers would be.

Since I go out to vernal ponds and collect daphnia, hey, why would I bother? You can't disinfect natural live food.

I have a high tolerance for all the passing phases of a tank though. I'm pleased to see black beard algae finally phasing out in my tanks - as in my last house, it arrived after year 2 and stuck around for a year. I know it's a temporary pest, like most aquarium algaes.

 

[MaloK]

While I'm not really fond of any pest snail... And any bad pathogen for that matter...

I'm still very inclined to put plants "as is" in a new setup and see what will come out of them.

It has a lots of drawbacks. But can really get a lots of good things moving at the same time.