Do These Really Help The Cycling Process?

[daizeUK]

If it helps you, I started my fishless cycle using API Filter Start (I assume is similar or the same stuff as Quick Start, it's meant to contain bacteria to get the filter started).  I did notice my ammonia dropping within a day or two, so maybe the API product did something, but then I fluffed it up by adding more ammonia too soon. 
 
My advice would be to try using the Quick Start, since you've got it, but follow TwoTankAmin's excellent advice about how much ammonia to add.  It's very important not to add too much or you can end up with a stalled cycle like I did.
 
Good luck!

 

[CezzaXV]

Can everyone stop suggesting products? There's no way that I can buy any other thing so PLEASE stop suggesting as it resolves nothing. I still don't know do these help and no one's helping me out here! Please answer my questions with no product suggestions, straight up yes or no. Thanks

Assuming we're talking about fishless cycling, the only product you NEED is some bottled ammonia. Products such as Stress Zyme may or may not help. As you've got them you might as well use them.

 

[MBOU]

 Does the API quick start and the API stress zyme really help the cycling process?
 
"Api Quick start will aid cycling but it wont give you a full cycle."
 
 
"The QuickStart is really good, providing you give it a food source (hence it implies its possible to use fish on the bottle >.<) but a few flakes of fish food will do the job"
 
"I would say they aren't entirely a money waster although they don't do what some of them claim."
 
 If so, should I abort my current cycling process and start new?
 
"You do not need to "go back and start again".
 
"Continue from where you are without them, There is no reason to go backwards."
 
"Why would you want to restart your cycle? "
 
------------------
 
Simply put, your questions have been answered repeatedly... there is no simple yes or no answers. Use the answers you have been give.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Fishhelper- please go back and read post #11- you got a straight answer to your question, you may have missed it.
 
MBOU- no, it is not hit or miss. But lets not debate that. My point is this- when I use a product, it is for a reason. I follow the same process any sensible fish keeper might. When it comes to buying/using a bottled cycling bacteria starter, first one must determine what they think are the proper bacteria strains to end up with in a cycled tank. Then one should only buy a starter product they know contains those bacteria. And no matter which one chooses, one needs to follow the directions in order to have any chance at obtaining the "advertised" results.
 
And if one is not sure of both of the above, one should not buy any product at all as there would be no way for one to know if it can or will work.
 
And you omitted this from your answers about Qiuck Start and Stress Zyme:
 
"OK straight and simple.Flush that stuff. Its useless imo."

 

[MBOU]

Didn't disagree about following instructions...
 
But I disagree with telling people to waste their money throwing away products they already have just because you don't like them? Either way.. will be up to the OP whether they want to follow your advice and bin the products they have and go out and buy different ones or not.

 

[Nicholas1]

why buy the bottled stuff? waste of money and yes i have tried and tested them the best on the market now is pure aquaruim balls and yes they are 100 times better than the bottle stuff i swear by them.
Either that if you cannot afford any products get some filter squeeze from a tank what is free of disease,

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Nicholas- I had not heard about the Evolution Aqua Pure Aquarium balls. I am a bit confused about what they contain and what they do and how. Perhaps since you are such a fan you could explain it. I went to their site to check into it and I found a link they provided to an article in PFK with whom the company did an interview. In the article I found this:

The winning factor is the omission of any claim that this will start an aquarium cycle. The product is intended as a standalone to existing biological activity, and although it claims to —and by all accounts should— help establish tanks, it’s not intended as a sole developer of filter bacteria

 
So I wonder exactly how this product helps on the cycling issues? Why is it the company says it doesn't start a cycle but you stay it does? Can you let us know what it is in their product that is doing this but about which they are unaware? 
 
Also, you are one of the very first people I have run across on a forum who states they have tried all the products out there and that none of the bottled products work. Could you be so kind as to list some of the details which compare the results you got as well as to let us know how many tanks were involved in each of your tests, where you obtained the products and what for/.amounts of ammonia you dosed. Could you please do this in the more appropriate scientific forum rather than overwhelming this thread. What I am most curious about are the results you got with ABIL by Avecom. I have read a number of research papers regarding ammonia oxidation issues where this product was used to jump start the bacterial colonies. Since it seemed to work in lab settings with Ph.D.s and is a favorite of the aquaculture industry, I would love to hear why you know it really does not work?
 
MBOU- the term "flush it" is used in the states to mean something is no good. It is a saying that basically means it will do as much good in the toilet as used as instructed. I forget there are mostly Brits here.

 

[MBOU]

LOL TTA, I forget you are in the US I admire your determination thats fer sure!

 

[Ruskull]

When I first started up my 36 gallon I had issues with the cycle so I used media from another 20 gallon I had running at the time.  I already had some fish in the tank so I was doing large daily water changes.  The media from that tank kicked started it but it didn't help the nitrite.  I did some internet research & heard about 2 types of bottled cycle starters/helpers, and I found the Seachem version available locally but it cost a lot.  I bought it anyway and I do believe it helped me get that nitrite under control less than a week after I added it.  Seachem Stability I believe it was called.  I'd use it again if I was staring up from  scratch, cause I'm impatient &  lazy like that, just being honest.

 

[MBOU]

Starting with mature media will always be the best way but that on its own wont always do it unless you have a lot of mature media.
 
Set up a 25L brand new tank with 50/50 tap water/mature water with 5 plastic bioballs of mature media. Used Interpets Bioactive Tapsafe for three days and followed cycle through, had to do a 50% waterchange on day 4 to get the .5 nitrite and 150+ nitrates down. 25% water change on day 6 as well and added fish food and tested to watch spike. By day 7 everything had settled at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 10 nitrate (tapwater level). 2 guppies added and water tested daily and the only rise is a slow rise in nitrates, 25% water change + bioactive tapsafe and 2 more guppies added... still not the slightest problem.
 
Seemed pretty easy considering it was my brother doing everything on my advise long distance and he has never even looked after a fish tank, let alone kept one. Seems he has had a nice easy set up...

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Do you have any idea what is in Stability?
 
If you believe that the cycle is handled by autotrophic bacteria, then you know that stability does not contain any of these. Stability contains spores, not living bacteria. Heterotrophic bacteria do form spores while the autotrophs do not.
 
SeaChem will not identify what is in their bottle, they do not provide any independent research on it either. So you can spend your money on it if you like. But the bacteria you end up with handling the cycling chores in your tank will not have come from Stability.
 
But don't trust me, do your own homework. See if the ammonia oxidizing bacteria strains found in fw and sw tanks are identical. If they are not, then how can Stability cycle either as they claim.

 

[daizeUK]

I agree that it is not prudent to spend money on a product unless the manufacturer will identify the contents but there is one thing that confuses me (and I apologise for posting this in FishHelper's thread when this discussion really belongs in the scientific section!) - we don't know what is in Avecom's ABIL product either, yet it is accepted in scientific circles as containing valuable bacteria.  Or at least if there is any information published about what ABIL contains then it doesn't seem to be available to the public.  Furthermore ABIL is not connected with any of the published research on nitrifying bacteria that we are aware of yet their product still works, so if one undisclosed formula works then perhaps others might as well?

 

[Ruskull]

Do you have any idea what is in Stability?
 
If you believe that the cycle is handled by autotrophic bacteria, then you know that stability does not contain any of these. Stability contains spores, not living bacteria. Heterotrophic bacteria do form spores while the autotrophs do not.
 
SeaChem will not identify what is in their bottle, they do not provide any independent research on it either. So you can spend your money on it if you like. But the bacteria you end up with handling the cycling chores in your tank will not have come from Stability.
 
But don't trust me, do your own homework. See if the ammonia oxidizing bacteria strains found in fw and sw tanks are identical. If they are not, then how can Stability cycle either as they claim.

 
I'm not a scientist, and I didn't claim that it contained the living bacteria. I said I believe it helped.  I don't know if it was spores, or what.....but the nitrite seemed to get under control fairly quickly after I added it.  For all I know it could've been the original donor media kicking in on it's own.  
 
I have my own theory as to why I the other tank media kick started the ammonia but not the nitrite bacteria:  Because it came from a bio-wheel type HOB filter and I believe maybe that filter contained most of the bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite, but the bio wheel contained most the bacteria that converts the nitrite to nitrate.  They are similar but different right?  If not you still have to admit, it was a fair theory right?
 
Regardless, I still believe it worked for me although I don't know exactly why. 

I agree that it is not prudent to spend money on a product unless the manufacturer will identify the contents but there is one thing that confuses me (and I apologise for posting this in FishHelper's thread when this discussion really belongs in the scientific section!) - we don't know what is in Avecom's ABIL product either, yet it is accepted in scientific circles as containing valuable bacteria.  Or at least if there is any information published about what ABIL contains then it doesn't seem to be available to the public.  Furthermore ABIL is not connected with any of the published research on nitrifying bacteria that we are aware of yet their product still works, so if one undisclosed formula works then perhaps others might as well?

 
Exactly.  I bought Stability in desperation at the time & for all I know it may not have done anything positive at all.  But I'm positive it didn't hurt.   

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I never said it hurt, I just said it wasn't responsible for supplying your tank with the bacteria that ultimately handle the cycling chores.
 
The ammonia and nitrite oxidizers live in the same biofilm along with a host of heterotrophic bacteria. Both the ammonia and nitrite oxidizers live together not in separate locations. However, they do tend to colonize at different depths from the surface of the bio-film.
 
daize- there is research re ABIL. Many research projects start off by using it to get a big jump on establishing the bacterial colonies they need for the research.
 
Improved performance of an intensive rotifer culture system by using a nitrifying inoculum (ABIL)
From http/www.vliz.be/imisdocs/publications/99136.pdf
 
An improved nitrifying enrichment to remove ammonium and nitrite from freshwater aquaria systems
from http/www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0044848601008833
 
Elevated salinity selects for a less diverse ammonia-oxidizing population in aquarium biofilters
from http/onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1016/j.femsec.2004.10.001/full
(this study identifies the bacteria)
 
Characterization of an Autotrophic Nitrogen-Removing Biofilm from a Highly Loaded Lab-Scale Rotating Biological Contactor
from http/aem.asm.org/content/69/6/3626.full#ref-36
 
Start-up of autotrophic nitrogen removal reactors via sequential biocatalyst addition
from https/biblio.ugent.be/publication/209175/file/869933.pdf
 
Development of nitrifying bacterial consortia for immobilizing in nitrifying bioreactors designed for penaeid and non-penaeid larval rearing systems in the tropics
from http/nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/1522/1/IJMS%2035(3)%20240-248.pdf
 
Dimethyl sulfide removal from synthetic waste gas using a flat poly (dimethylsiloxane)-coated composite membrane bioreactor
from http/www.aseanbiotechnology.info/Abstract/21015452.pdf
 
If you want to find more references do a Google Scholar search using "nitrifying bacteria inoculum + ABIL" and "nitrifying bacteria inoculum + Avecom"
 
There is a big difference between hobbyists reporting what they think happened and trained experience professionals (including pH.D.s) doing research under controlled conditions using the best lab caliber equipment and having access to information most of us do not even know exists. Ley me leave you with this story.
 
"I recently bough a new 20 gal. aquarium and set it up. I went with a fishless cycle and dosed some ammonia I was told was safe to use. So I added ammonia and tested and it said I had 2 ppm. A couple of days later I added the ammonia again and now my levels were over 3 ppm. A few days later I dosed the ammonia again and now my ammonia was almost at 5 ppm, so I stopped adding any more. But my ammonia levels would not come down. By about day ten I was so frustrated by the ammonia not dropping that in a fit I spit into the tank. That evening when I tested the ammonia level and it was down to 4 ppm. So I spit into my tank again. The next day the ammonia levels were close to 2 ppm. So once again I spit into my tank and the next day my ammonia was close to zero. I do not know what was in my spit but I believe it must contain ammonia eating bacteria or something that makes them develop faster as it made my ammonia go away. Anybody who is experiencing ammonia problems during cycling should be spitting into their tank to help as I believe it worked for me. "
 
(The above was not written with any individual in mind, I am merely trying to make the point that anecdotal reports do not qualify as research. Bear in mind that one of the hallmarks of valid research is that the same results should be obtained if the experiment is repeated by anyone using the same methods and controls.)

 

[Ruskull]

Still, you can't be CERTAIN that the Seachem Stability didn't help the tank cycle faster, just as I can't be CERTAIN that it did.  


By the way, that spit story reminded me of an argument on another fish forum where an experienced fishkeeper said using urine as an ammonia source was fine to start a fishless cycle!  Needless to say most of the other posters had a field day with him..........LOL