Do These Cycle Boosters Actually Work?

[raptorrex]

you would hope that a company like Tetra who have patents on their unique system of housing the bacteria are not just ripping you off... but many will (rightfully) disagree

there are many items offered for sale, quite legally, that do nothing like they claim. Lying, cheating and stealing are, simply, tools in the Corporations bag. all to be used, and all used regularly.


there is no, current, preservation method. that does not include refrigeration of freezing.( well that's viable for home use) and, as Tetra are part of Spectrum Brands (Remington razors and Rayovac batteries) they make little on none of the products they sell. the suggestion they are at the forefront of some scientific system to preserve bacteria, in some unknown way, is frankly hilarious.

 

[the biffster]

If bacteria (albeit not the ones we`re interested in)can live in the scalding hot, anaerobic conditions by the volcanic vents 3 miles deep in the ocean, who`s to say ?

I don't think you're quite grasping the magnitude of evolution.

The bacteria living in vents didn't just 'drop in' and some were able to live there by chance. They moved over millions of years towards being able to cope with higher and higher temperatures, till eventually they ended up in the volcanic vents.

There is no way for bacteria to 'evolve' to being able to cope in space as there is no 'middle ground' for them to evolve along. It's either 'earth conditions' or 'space conditions'.

Although I would presume the first place you would start looking for bacteria that may be capable is around the poles.

just a thought some one
said about with no oxygen
well if the bacteria was suspended
in water water contains oxygen
is it not possible for it to take its
oxygen from that H2O

Yes but there is a finite amount of oxygen. And as the bacteria use it up the by product is acid. So they have less oxygen and a much lower pH. This kills them very quickly.

It's a problem people discovered when they first started trying to culture bacteria in liquids. To culture them you have to use buffers and the such. You don't just pop bacteria + media into a jar.

Edit: Plus the oxygen level, in a similar way to fish and humans. Isn't a case of 'well there is some so we'll use it ALL up before dying'. After awhile the O2 concentration becomes too low for us to take any from it. It's doesn't mean there actually isn't any.

two very good valid points but how
did bacteria be come to be in space in the first
place it cant just have evolved in space as it
as been said there is nothing in space for it to
evolve from so did it not evolve on earth or a planet
before making its way in to space somehow


maybe if the bacteria in the bottle
is suspended in an alkaline rich fluid

 

[Timmy_Bee]

but how did bacteria be come to be in space in the first
place it cant just have evolved in space as it
as been said there is nothing in space for it to
evolve from so did it not evolve on earth or a planet
before making its way in to space somehow

Maybe Tetra are the creators of life? Our existance has evolved from their bottled products? just a thought.

Also, C101 - sorry i didn't mean the moon was right in the middle of earth and space, i just meant it was inbetween the two points (albeit much close to the 'space' side)

 

[anon02]

I was reading up on nitrifying bacteria recently and via a number of external links came across a scientific paper which reported a growing number of instances of these bacteria being found in chlorinated drinking water supplies in the US. I dont know how long the US have been using chlorine and chloramines in their supplies, but it illustrates the resilience of bacteria

 

[the biffster]

so is it possible to suspend
bacteria in a fluid in a bottle
and keep it a live or is it kept
in suspended animation while in the
bottle or is there enough oxygen
in the bottle to keep the bacteria
alive

 

[anon02]

so is it possible to suspend
bacteria in a fluid in a bottle
and keep it a live or is it kept
in suspended animation while in the
bottle or is there enough oxygen
in the bottle to keep the bacteria
alive

I cant answer that but to quote Conan Doyle "Once you have illiminated the impossible, in whatever is left, no matter how improbable, lies the truth"

Or as one of my old tutors said, In the sciences the closest you get to never is not at this moment

 

[the biffster]

so is it possible to suspend
bacteria in a fluid in a bottle
and keep it a live or is it kept
in suspended animation while in the
bottle or is there enough oxygen
in the bottle to keep the bacteria
alive

I cant answer that but to quote Conan Doyle "Once you have illiminated the impossible, in whatever is left, no matter how improbable, lies the truth"

Or as one of my old tutors said, In the sciences the closest you get to never is not at this moment

elementary my dear Watson

but you lost me with the last one

 

[Timmy_Bee]

you do know he never said that?

 

[the biffster]

you do know he never said that?

all just charters made up
by sir Arthur Conan Doyle
the great sleuth Sherlock Holmes

what the h*** as this got to
do with bacteria in a bottle

 

[Timmy_Bee]

nothing wrong with a bit of... lateral thinking

 

[the biffster]

nothing wrong with a bit of... lateral thinking

that is very true
and very logical

 

[RustedKnight]

I've avoided reading most of this thread. it appears to be largely debate based.

But I'm just throwing out there the idea of dormant bacteria. They colonise Abacs and Nbacs/whatever then somehow put them into a dormant state, where it is bottled and sold, and something in water chemistry awakens the bacteria.

The dormant bacteria will be able to survive great heat and great cold temperatures due to its dormant state, and therefore will likely have an indefinate shelf-life.

This is of course speculation, but it is possible for this to be done, and I think it may be how these "bacteria boosters" work.

 

[Timmy_Bee]

so back to the topic in hand, what do we think would be a good test of whether Safe Start works. This is my suggestion (which i am unable to run, because i dont have 3 tanks & filters

Tank 1 (Safe Start)
Follow instructions on bottle. When 'cycle' has finished, add 3ppm ammonia and test ever 12h to see progress

Tank 2 (Ammonia)
Follow usual fishless tactics and add 3ppm (explained below), test and top up when reaches 0

Tank 3 (control)
Do nothing for the duration of the 'safe start cycle', then add 3ppm, test and top up when reaches 0

The reason i have stated 3ppm is im guessing Safe Start is designed to set up your filter for a basic stock to begin with, so i think 5ppm would be asking too much.
Edit: or do you think it should be even lower?

My predicted results would be that safe start does something, but not much and therefor cycles before the control but after the Ammonia tank and thus proving that it is a waste of money

If anyone has 3 spare tanks collecting dust and wants to waste some money and time on a badly designed experiment, please feel free to test this out!
Or if anyone has any better ideas of a test, let us know!




RK - welcome to the debate!

You share my thoughts, but people have said they doubt this is what happens at all (whether it cost to much, or whatever), and some doubt this is even possible

 

[anon02]

so back to the topic in hand, what do we think would be a good test of whether Safe Start works. This is my suggestion (which i am unable to run, because i dont have 3 tanks & filters

Tank 1 (Safe Start)
Follow instructions on bottle. When 'cycle' has finished, add 3ppm ammonia and test ever 12h to see progress

Tank 2 (Ammonia)
Follow usual fishless tactics and add 3ppm (explained below), test and top up when reaches 0

Tank 3 (control)
Do nothing for the duration of the 'safe start cycle', then add 3ppm, test and top up when reaches 0

The reason i have stated 3ppm is im guessing Safe Start is designed to set up your filter for a basic stock to begin with, so i think 5ppm would be asking too much.

My predicted results would be that safe start does something, but not much and therefor cycles before the control but after the Ammonia tank and thus proving that it is a waste of money

If anyone has 3 spare tanks collecting dust and wants to waste some money and time on a badly designed experiment, please feel free to test this out!
Or if anyone has any better ideas of a test, let us know!

RK - welcome to the debate!

You share my thoughts, but people have said they doubt this is what happens at all (whether it cost to much, or whatever), and some doubt this is even possible

Another option would be to look at a sample under a microscope
At least that way you could determine whether there is any bacteria to start off with

 

[Timmy_Bee]

yeah that might be easier. well it would be if i had a microscope...