Do Snails Get Inbreeding Depression?

[MelL333]

I would like to breed my mystery snails.  I know that inbreeding doesn't have any negative effects on bugs.  And you can inbreed fish to a point before seeing negative effects.  But I can't find much information on snails.  And what information I do find, isn't consistent from source to source.  It seems like there is a lot of misinformation and unknowns when it comes to snails.
I would like to not have to keep buying more snails to avoid inbreeding depression, but will if I have to.  So before I start any serious selective breeding projects, I need to know if this is a concern or not.  Does anyone know if snails get inbreeding depression? 
Thank you all in advance.

 

[HAMBONE]

I would like to breed my mystery snails.  I know that inbreeding doesn't have any negative effects on bugs.  And you can inbreed fish to a point before seeing negative effects.  But I can't find much information on snails.  And what information I do find, isn't consistent from source to source.  It seems like there is a lot of misinformation and unknowns when it comes to snails.
I would like to not have to keep buying more snails to avoid inbreeding depression, but will if I have to.  So before I start any serious selective breeding projects, I need to know if this is a concern or not.  Does anyone know if snails get inbreeding depression? 
Thank you all in advance.

Yes, please do not attempt this

 

[MelL333]

 

I would like to breed my mystery snails.  I know that inbreeding doesn't have any negative effects on bugs.  And you can inbreed fish to a point before seeing negative effects.  But I can't find much information on snails.  And what information I do find, isn't consistent from source to source.  It seems like there is a lot of misinformation and unknowns when it comes to snails.
I would like to not have to keep buying more snails to avoid inbreeding depression, but will if I have to.  So before I start any serious selective breeding projects, I need to know if this is a concern or not.  Does anyone know if snails get inbreeding depression? 
Thank you all in advance.

Yes, please do not attempt this
 

Can you be more specific?  Don't attempt what?
What is the source of your information?

 

[Donya]

It is a risk with snails, yes. It is better to cross out as much as possible, although inbreeding can be hard to avoid altogether when you're raising a group in a tank together, since sometimes they can hit maturity at an unexpectedly small size. It is common to breed snails in a few tanks, where each tank has some stock rotated in and out periodically. In those cases, inbreeding is not impossible and will happen to some degree, but it stacks the odds in favor of crossing out after a couple of generations. 
 
Although the genetic problems associated with inbreeding aren't well-established, thin shells are a common problem that breeders encounter when trying to select for other recessive traits. Some cases of it are environmental due to lack of CaCO3 in the water or high temperatures encouraging too rapid growth to form the shell well, but there are also cases where two snails are raised in the same water and one has a badly thin shell while the other does not. Often it is the more "fancy" or rare colors (purples, sometimes blues and ivories) that suffer from it compared to colors that are closer to the wild type, suggesting that it is something brought out via inbreeding. Some people also complain about shell fissures in inbred populations, but those are not actually a genetic condition but rather a symptom of any number of other shell deposition and developmental problems, thin shell being one of them. The symptoms for shell deposition problems are basically ragged-looking or washed-out-looking shells that constantly chip and dent, even farther back where the shell should be solid enough to avoid damage from small collisions.
 
EDIT: forgot to add - you should bear in mind that any stock you start with is likely to be inbred to some degree already. It's an issue shared with just about any species that gets bred on a large scale for the aquarium trade.

 

[MelL333]

It is a risk with snails, yes. It is better to cross out as much as possible, although inbreeding can be hard to avoid altogether when you're raising a group in a tank together, since sometimes they can hit maturity at an unexpectedly small size. It is common to breed snails in a few tanks, where each tank has some stock rotated in and out periodically. In those cases, inbreeding is not impossible and will happen to some degree, but it stacks the odds in favor of crossing out after a couple of generations. 
 
Although the genetic problems associated with inbreeding aren't well-established, thin shells are a common problem that breeders encounter when trying to select for other recessive traits. Some cases of it are environmental due to lack of CaCO3 in the water or high temperatures encouraging too rapid growth to form the shell well, but there are also cases where two snails are raised in the same water and one has a badly thin shell while the other does not. Often it is the more "fancy" or rare colors (purples, sometimes blues and ivories) that suffer from it compared to colors that are closer to the wild type, suggesting that it is something brought out via inbreeding. Some people also complain about shell fissures in inbred populations, but those are not actually a genetic condition but rather a symptom of any number of other shell deposition and developmental problems, thin shell being one of them. The symptoms for shell deposition problems are basically ragged-looking or washed-out-looking shells that constantly chip and dent, even farther back where the shell should be solid enough to avoid damage from small collisions.
 
EDIT: forgot to add - you should bear in mind that any stock you start with is likely to be inbred to some degree already. It's an issue shared with just about any species that gets bred on a large scale for the aquarium trade.

 
Thank you for your response.  This is all very helpful information.  I have noticed a couple of those symptoms in some of the snails I recently bought.  But they have a few interesting traits that I haven't seen before so I think I'll use them anyway and just outbreed to refresh the gene pool.
Thank you again, very helpful.

 

[Ninjouzata]

That is really interesting.
Do you think you'll make a journal of sorts for this project?

 

[MelL333]

That is really interesting.
Do you think you'll make a journal of sorts for this project?

 
Yes I plan to make a journals for all of my projects.

 

[Gizaroo2]

This will be very interesting to follow. I look forward to your journals on it!

 

[TallTree01]

Excuse my ignorance but aren't snails hermaphroditic?
Meaning that all breeding would be asexual or can they reproduce sexually as well?

 

[Wildbetta]

Excuse my ignorance but aren't snails hermaphroditic?
Meaning that all breeding would be asexual or can they reproduce sexually as well?

 
It depends on the type of snail.  Mystery (apple) snails are either male or female so you have to have two individuals to breed.  Assassin snails are the same way.  MTS (malaysian trumpet snails) are either male or female and have to have both to breed but the female can produce female clones so that is why although they are not hermaphrotic they can produce numbers so quickly.   Ramshorn snails and pond/tadpole snails are hermaphrotic and can reproduce with just one snail in the tank.

 

[MelL333]

This will be very interesting to follow. I look forward to your journals on it!

 
Just to warn you, it will be a while before any of them are online.  I only planned to put ones up if anything interesting happened during or as a result of the projects they're about.  But if there is enough interest in seeing them, I might just put them all up.
 
*Edit*  A lot of it would probably be repetitive and boring, but at least there would be some more specific information on mystery snail breeding, and just mystery snails in general, online.  That might be helpful to people looking for information in the future.  I've been finding it hard to find much information on the subject.  There is some, but there are still some specific questions that I can't find answers too, and like I said in an earlier post, a lot of information isn't consistent from source to source.

 

[Donya]

Excuse my ignorance but aren't snails hermaphroditic? 
Meaning that all breeding would be asexual or can they reproduce sexually as well?

 
In addition to what Wildbetta said, not all hermaphroditic Gastropods reproduce asexually, and those that can usually don't. Most aquarium cases where people think they've seen asexual reproduction in snails like Planorbids and Physids are far more likely to be due to a snail having mated before introduction into a tank.