Do I just restart all of my tanks?

[jjoo]

Hello, for the past 5months I've been having so many fish deaths in all of my fish tanks and wasn't able to treat them with anything, one exception being an angelfish whom I kept in a hospital tank with a very high salt and api general cure concentration for 2-3weeks. So all starts when a fish gets stringy white poop, then they develop red gills, stop eating and die within a week. Ive tried MANY doses of api general cure, fritz expel-p, erythromycin. Nothing really helped at all. And about that angelfish, he started eating but still has very red gills and difficulty swallowing. The tanks are: 50, 30, 10, 5, 5 gal tanks. I had angels, neons, guppies, endlers, plecos, otos, gouramis die. Fish tend to get sick every 2-3weeks. All tanks have 0 ammonia and nitrite, 10-20ppm nitrate. Ph is 8 and very stable due to high kh. I'm running out of hope... At this point it would be better to euthanise all the fish and start over again.

 

[Magnum Man]

In have a Natural Ph of over 8... I ended up putting in an RO filter unit for my soft water tanks... I still have one tank that is using tap water, but those are hard water fish... better than half of your fish would prefer softer water... by being in too hard of water can stress them out & make them more susceptible to disease, or make it harder to recover from a disease...,

 

[jjoo]

In have a Natural Ph of over 8... I ended up putting in an RO filter unit for my soft water tanks... I still have one tank that is using tap water, but those are hard water fish... better than half of your fish would prefer softer water... by being in too hard of water can stress them out & make them more susceptible to disease, or make it harder to recover from a disease...,

Thanks for the reply. I know that ph of 8 is a bit too high, but my hard water fish like guppies, endlers do still get sick and die just as much as other fish. So an RO filter very likely woundn't stop any of these deaths. I'm not saying that I shouldn't get one, as it has been on my "things to buy" list for a while now, but never got around to getting one. I might just have to restart all the tanks and use RO water in them then.

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello jj. If you're seeing fish die, then I can guarantee you have a water problem. Even the most experienced people are going to have trouble keeping water clean enough to support fish in tiny fish tanks. Small tanks take a lot of work, more work than a larger tank. This is because even a small trace of waste material can be lethal in a small tank. There's not enough water there to dilute the poisons created by dissolving fish waste material. My question is, how often do you remove and replace the water? If you cleaned up the tank water and set up a sound water change routine, I believe your fish deaths would stop.

10

 

[jjoo]

Hey 10 Tanks,

Hello jj. If you're seeing fish die, then I can guarantee you have a water problem. Even the most experienced people are going to have trouble keeping water clean enough to support fish in tiny fish tanks. Small tanks take a lot of work, more work than a larger tank. This is because even a small trace of waste material can be lethal in a small tank. There's not enough water there to dilute the poisons created by dissolving fish waste material. My question is, how often do you remove and replace the water? If you cleaned up the tank water and set up a sound water change routine, I believe your fish deaths would stop.

10

Hey 10,
I do 30-40% water changes weekly, also none of my tanks are new so the ecosystems are well established. To add to that I test Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate whenever I see a fish acting up and the first 2 are zeros, as for nitrate there always is some, but not a lot cause I have quite a bit of plants in my tanks. Most of the deaths happen in the bigger tanks, the smallest ones are perfectly fine.
There is some bacteria in my tank that keeps infecting my fish, but high ph, kh might be making it worse.
I understand that you wanna treat everyone as beginners and suspect that ammonia/nitrites are the cause for all their problems, it's not the case here. This is something much deeper than all those parasites or bacteria you find info about online, so I'm trying to get to the bottom of this all. So the most sensible thing would be to do an autopsy of one of the dead fish, or just throw everything out and start over.

 

[Uberhoust]

Any chance your water is not being treated for Chlorine, Chloramine, or some other water treatment, ie Floride. The symptoms you describe suggest that the fishes mucus membranes are highly irritated and perhaps damaged. Chlorine and other water treatments affect the more delicate tissues of the fish first. Also Chloramine does not degas from the water like chlorine does, I don't know what Floride does. This is my first thought reading your post but not necessarily the correct one.

Do the fish get sick every 2 to 3 weeks, ie is it cyclical, or do they get sick after being introduced to the tanks after 2 3 weeks. If cyclical it is likely something that gets changed each period.

Finally, any medicine you add to the fish tank will affect the fish negatively, the only reason to treat the fish is if you know what they have. Adding a bunch of medicines in a shotgun approach is typically not effective, and often makes the situation worse.

My suggestion for you would be to:
1) complete a significant water change making sure the replacement water is treated for chlorine and warmed to the tank temperature, your fish are sensitive now, ie 50% change with vacuuming the surface of the substrate, and cleaning the glass
2) Check all your items you put into the tank, i use scrubbies to clean the glass interior, some scrubbies have detergents added. Overall look at everything that goes into the tank.
3) Ensure that your rocks, decorations etc. are all safe for the fish, if something is questionable take it out.
4) If you have used medications in the current tank you are having issues with consider using some carbon in the filter to scrub out the medicines till they get removed via water changes.
5) Consider your past history, do you have a reason to suspect you have introduced a disease to your fish.
6) Provide some photos illustrating the issues to this forum. Also provide water change regiment and your water parameters and treatment history.

Overall try to get your tanks to have the least number of additives and potential contamination sources before trying other treatments. You may need more frequent water changes initially.

You might yet lose your fish but obviously something needs to be addressed.

Good luck.

 

[jjoo]

Any chance your water is not being treated for Chlorine, Chloramine, or some other water treatment, ie Floride. The symptoms you describe suggest that the fishes mucus membranes are highly irritated and perhaps damaged. Chlorine and other water treatments affect the more delicate tissues of the fish first. Also Chloramine does not degas from the water like chlorine does, I don't know what Floride does. This is my first thought reading your post but not necessarily the correct one.

Do the fish get sick every 2 to 3 weeks, ie is it cyclical, or do they get sick after being introduced to the tanks after 2 3 weeks. If cyclical it is likely something that gets changed each period.

Finally, any medicine you add to the fish tank will affect the fish negatively, the only reason to treat the fish is if you know what they have. Adding a bunch of medicines in a shotgun approach is typically not effective, and often makes the situation worse.

My suggestion for you would be to:
1) complete a significant water change making sure the replacement water is treated for chlorine and warmed to the tank temperature, your fish are sensitive now, ie 50% change with vacuuming the surface of the substrate, and cleaning the glass
2) Check all your items you put into the tank, i use scrubbies to clean the glass interior, some scrubbies have detergents added. Overall look at everything that goes into the tank.
3) Ensure that your rocks, decorations etc. are all safe for the fish, if something is questionable take it out.
4) If you have used medications in the current tank you are having issues with consider using some carbon in the filter to scrub out the medicines till they get removed via water changes.
5) Consider your past history, do you have a reason to suspect you have introduced a disease to your fish.
6) Provide some photos illustrating the issues to this forum. Also provide water change regiment and your water parameters and treatment history.

Overall try to get your tanks to have the least number of additives and potential contamination sources before trying other treatments. You may need more frequent water changes initially.

You might yet lose your fish but obviously something needs to be addressed.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply.
I have well water so chlorine/chloramine aren't an issue.
Every 2-3 weeks a fish falls sick (I stopped buying fish couple months ago due to this).
I have done a 50% water change 3-4 days ago also had all the surfaces scrubbed and gravel vacuumed real well.
At this moment the water is medication free as I had done multiple 30-50% water changes also I have put in carbon filters in all my tanks.
I think it all started when I bought 2 endlers and one of them was sick, he wasn't able to eat and ended up passing away, ever since then somehow this disease spread to all of my tanks, even tho I have separate equipment for each of my tanks.
Trust me, I've tried everything, from daily big water changes, salt, raising the temperature to medication such as metro, prazi, levamisole...
I don't really take photos, but I found 3, in the 1st one you can see neons with red gills, in the 2nd a dying endler, in the 3rd a neon with a bent spine, but that was a single isolated case(he didn't have white poop). 3 days ago I had a pleco pass away, he had a VERY red throat and seems like he died from internal bleeding as I was able to see blood inside his digestive tract where's before it was empty.

 

[Uberhoust]

From what you are saying you are working in the correct direction. It is not cyclic and by your description what ever is affecting the fish eventually affects everyone. My next thought would be inline I think with what you are suggesting they have some sort of disease, that is getting passed on. Biotic issues are not my strong point, but I would be looking at fish tuberculosis, Mycobacteriosis, or something similar, I don't think I can honestly offer anymore suggestions but hopefully someone with more disease experience will pipe in.

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello again. I don't believe you're changing enough water. Even a 40 percent change still leaves most of toxins in the water. These toxins will increase between water changes. Even a trace of dissolved nitrogen from the fish waste is enough to weaken the immune system of any fish and the bad bacteria that lives in any tank can infect the fish. A fish that gets more clean water is healthier and essentially immune to these bad bacteria. So, I would suggest removing and replacing more water. Tanks up to 30 gallons need half the water changed out twice a week. If you have a tank or tanks 30 gallons or larger, then change half the water every week. You'll notice a difference in the health of your fish. You also need to keep the food to a minimum and don't put too many fish in the tank in the first place.

10

 

[WhistlingBadger]

The bent spine could possibly be mycobacteriosis. @Colin_T @Byron The other fish sound like something toxic is getting into your water. Is there some kind of cleaning supply or other chemical that could have gotten into your tank? Have you added any new decor in the past few months?

 

[jjoo]

Hello again. I don't believe you're changing enough water. Even a 40 percent change still leaves most of toxins in the water. These toxins will increase between water changes. Even a trace of dissolved nitrogen from the fish waste is enough to weaken the immune system of any fish and the bad bacteria that lives in any tank can infect the fish. A fish that gets more clean water is healthier and essentially immune to these bad bacteria. So, I would suggest removing and replacing more water. Tanks up to 30 gallons need half the water changed out twice a week. If you have a tank or tanks 30 gallons or larger, then change half the water every week. You'll notice a difference in the health of your fish. You also need to keep the food to a minimum and don't put too many fish in the tank in the first place.

10

I understand that you believe that every tank should receive daily 70% water changes. But that's not how it all actually is. My tanks are not overstocked thus the nitrates, phosphates don't ever go that high at all. So the issue 100% is not the water. I have couple 2gal tanks with a dwarf gourami in it and a betta in another one, I know they are to small, but all I wanna say is that those two tanks had never ever had those fish fall sick, because I'm trying to keep them isolated from other tanks. All I'm trying to decide if there still is something I can do to treat my fish or should I start over again.

 

[jjoo]

The bent spine could possibly be mycobacteriosis. @Colin_T @Byron The other fish sound like something toxic is getting into your water. Is there some kind of cleaning supply or other chemical that could have gotten into your tank? Have you added any new decor in the past few months?

I'm on well water and we test it every year, there are no harmful chemicals in it at all and there is no way for other chemicals to get in the water. I don't use any decorations in my tanks, just substrate, gravel and plants. I understand that everyone here has a primitive way of thinking, and when they see "red gills" they all come here and tell me the issue is the water.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I'm on well water and we test it every year, there are no harmful chemicals in it at all and there is no way for other chemicals to get in the water. I don't use any decorations in my tanks, just substrate, gravel and plants. I understand that everyone here has a primitive way of thinking, and when they see "red gills" they all come here and tell me the issue is the water.

You chose to come here and ask for advice. We are trying to help you, and that means asking about the most obvious and common issues first. I'm not sure if you mean it this way, but telling us that we have "a primitive way of thinking" sounds insulting. And of course, insulting people who are trying to help you is never a good idea.

 

[OldFishKeeper]

The OP mentioned "white poop" several times, medicating for internal parasites and having losses every 2 to 3 weeks. Sounds to me that it was internal parasites/eggs and were not completely eliminated.

IMHO and recent experience with guppies, I would treat the fish with food medicated with Garlic Guard, PraziPro and a touch of Focus for 3 or 4 consecutive days. Seven to ten days later, do a 30% water change, concentrating on the substrate. Then treat the tank water with PraziPro. If you see any fish with white poop, isolate them immediately to a quarantine tank and repeat the procedure.

Any new fish I purchase are given the quarantine and medicated food procedure. I lost too many fish before finding this solution.

Just my .02 worth...

 

[MaloK]

So all starts when a fish gets stringy white poop, then they develop red gills, stop eating and die within a week

Only this phrase makes me think that you have more than one parasitic protozoan attacking your tanks at the same time.

This could prove a very challenging situation. But I could never resolve myself to euthanize without trying until the end. Then I provide the most humane MAID possible.

Anything containing soluble copper salts are the most effective, with a good temperature raise to precipitate their cycle as much as possible. Strong vacuuming of the substrate at every water changes will help reduce the number of individuals birth. Large water changes will reduce the swimming ones.

Make sure you break the cycle completely before stopping medication. Medicate the water you are going to use before changes.

Like many human parasitic protozoan caused diseases such as malaria, they are highly contagious.