Do Bacteria Still Breed When There's No Food?

CezzaXV

Fish Gatherer
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
2,662
Reaction score
0
Hey all,

Kind of a weird question. Do the bacteria in my filter still breed when there's no food? I'm not talking about just breeding with no source of ammonia at all, but I got a 12 hour double zero today, and it's obviously going to be another 12 hours before I redose. I know it really doesn't matter, but I just wondered if the bacteria will still be breeding even though there's no ammonia or nitrite in the water at the moment. I don't like to think my tank is sat there doing nothing lol.
 
I don't know the exact scientific answer to your question, but I did read that the bacteria like the fact that they get a pulse of ammonia to feed on, and the colonies grow quicker, than if we were to add, say, 1ppm x 5times per day.
 
If there not feeding they will breeding and vice vera until they pass away from what ever
 
oh good..i wondered this too! think mine are constantly eating...and not breeding! bit like me really :hyper:
 
Well, there is a bit of a different question here than I think is intended. If you mean that there is no food (nor will there be or has there been) for a period of days, then the bacteria will not breed, but will die off. The rate is roughly 12% per 24 hours without "food".


Now, if you mean that for periods of the day the bacteria have only "trace" levels of ammonia/nitrite then yes, they will expand their colony, create their biofilms, build their structures, etc. The bacteria we are seeking to cultivate basically will double in number every day under proper conditions.
 
Dr. Hovanec would not agree with the statement:
The rate is roughly 12% per 24 hours without "food".

According to Dr Hovanec the nitrifying bacteria that we have in our tanks' when there is no food present' will go into a dormant state where their activity levels can slow down to the point of virtual inactivity. They do not die but they also do not do anything. When food again becomes present they will begin to revive and feed and then can even reproduce. The stronger they are, the more able they are to perform their "cycling" duties.

Nitrifying bacteria aren't Human
23/05/10 09:16 Filed in: One & Only Nitrifying bacteria | Starting a new aquarium | Nitrifiers, Nitrifying bacteria

What? Of course, nitrifying bacteria aren't human everyone knows that. If that's the case, which it is, then why do so many people insist on giving nitrifying bacteria human traits? What I am talking about is the continued insistence of many that nitrifying bacteria can't possibly survive in a bottle because they will starve due to lack of food, if they don't suffocate first due to lack of oxygen in the bottle. Therefore, no nitrifying bacteria mixture can work because they all come in a bottle.

Humans need oxygen and food to survive. Nitrifying bacteria need oxygen and food to reproduce – there is a difference.

So how can nitrifying bacteria live in a bottle? Well, first we have to make sure we are on the same page definition wise. For humans, the opposite of live is dead. So if a human being is not living they are dead. But bacteria are not human and have a third option which is a state of not living (meaning their metabolism is almost shut-off) but they are not dead. There are a few different terms for bacteria in this state but the most common term is "viable but nonculturable". As stated earlier, in this state the metabolic activity of the bacteria is basically nonexistent and the bacteria can last a very long time in this condition waiting until conditions get better. This is one reason bacteria have been able to survive so long – they can shutdown and wait out bad environmental conditions.

One also reads a lot that since nitrifying bacteria don't form spores (which is true) they cannot shutdown and go into a resting phase which is false. Nitrifying bacteria have a different way of maintaining their viability when conditions are poor which relates to the fact that they prefer to be attached to surfaces where they can develop a coating or shield of exoploymer substances (EPS) that protects them.

Once put into the bottle nitrifying bacteria no longer have access to food (ammonia or nitrite) and the oxygen level in the liquid in the bottle will drop. The bacteria will sense their environment is changing and they will start to go into the viable but nonculturable state. How long it takes the bacteria to reach this state depends on the temperature, their condition when first placed in the bottle and a few other factors.

So why do so many people think that nitrifying bacteria can't survive in a bottle in the first place? The main reason is that many hobbyists have used bottled mixtures of nitrifying bacteria and seen poor to no benefits in terms of accelerating the establishment of the biological filter in their tank. Namely, their tank did not cycle any faster than if they had not used the nitrifying bacteria. So the thinking is that bacteria were good at the manufacturing facility but once placed in a bottle they quickly die and became useless. Of course, this scenario depends on one main factor – that the nitrifying bacteria are the right bacteria for the aquaria in the first place.

As my peer-reviewed published research has shown not all nitrifying bacteria are the same. The nitrifying bacteria in aquaria are different species than those in wastewater treatment facilities (which are species bottled by many companies) and are not the typical species everyone thought were responsible for nitrification in aquaria. Thus, to put it simply, manufacturers were growing and bottling the wrong nitrifying bacteria and no matter what they were stored in or even if they were fresh from the facility they were not going to work in the aquaria environment. So, in reality, the bottle had nothing to do with it.

Does that mean nitrifying bacteria can last forever in a bottle – no, they cannot but they can last for awhile. And by 'last' I mean start to working quickly once poured into the aquarium to start getting rid of ammonia and nitrite ('last' does not mean live or die). Based on my research and experience, assuming the bacteria are the correct species, the nitrifiers can last for up to one year in a bottle. This assumes the bottle (and the bacteria) were not frozen (that's a sure killer because it breaks the cell wall) or exposed to temperatures above 104°F for very long (a day or so). Think of the nitrifying bacteria in a bottle as a group of rechargeable batteries that are slowly losing power. They have a full charge for awhile then slowly the power starts to drain until after a year there is very little power left.

From http://www.drtimsaqu...og_twitter.html
 
Dr. Tim is also trying to sell his product.
 
I'm going to come down on the wonderful answer, it depends.

Bacteria will breed rapidly given a ready food supply, suitable conditions, and something to sit on that is appropriate to what type they are.

As you're probably aware our beloved pet bacteria like a well oxygenated environment with something to sit on. If you remove the food they'll likely go dormant. They'll take a while to stop multiplying, but stop they will. Add food back in and you get a surge of activity.

Pulsing food sources will likely simply select out the less picky bacteria that do well in reduced slow situations (like power cuts and filter maintenance), so I can see the purpose, however given time they'll sort themselves out into a stable state.

Overall, I'm sure there's a right answer to pulsing ammonia or constantly supplying, but it's probably more practical to worry about how you're actually going to do it, and remember that they're pretty sturdy once they get going and very complicated when you start analysing what's changing the rate of growth. Much simpler to treat them like fish and give them stable conditions.
 

Most reactions

Back
Top