Do American cichlids work the same as Africans for aggression control?

[Colin_T]

Rams and livebearers come from water with different chemistry. Rams have soft acid water, livebearers medium hard water with a pH above 7.0.

The tank (45 x 38 x 53cm high) is not big enough for parrot cichlids or any dither fish if you have a pr of convicts in there.

 

[Wills]

Have to admit didnt realise it wasnt even 2 foot long. I was assuming it was at least 3 foot or maybe just short. None of those fish are a good choice in there - remember what I said about 6x length 2x width.

Since you have central americans and africans I had assumed you had hard water so really quite limited with fish choices in a tank this size. The south american dwarf cichlids like Rams need soft water. Your best bet with this tank would be to look at Shell Dwellers, something like a colony of Ocelatus Gold would look great in there.

Wills

 

[AquaBarb]

Hmmm 2013 was a long time ago haha I hope I wasnt recommending Rams and Guppies! Things have moved on since then though lol.

The set up you have suggested sounds good - I would go for the Convicts over the Parrots, possibly the Ellioti could work but Convicts feel better for the footprint. But Ellioti would be better with tank mates. Parrots are just not for me so bit biased there, but they also can get quite big and should really be in a 4 foot tank.

@AquaBarb has a similar set up with his Ellioti and some Swordtails but I think his are in a 3 foot 125 litre tank.

Wills

Yes i had koi swordtails in with my Ellioti 180 breeder.

Absolutely no problems Ellioti are pretty peaceful cichlids which get along with most tank mates

 

[AmyKieran]

No I actually have soft water, but I buffer my water for my Africans

I’m thinking getting rid of everything in there, and replacing with rams and livebearers?

 

[Colin_T]

What about Apistogramma cacatuoides instead of rams?
They are better looking, easy to keep and breed, and you can sell any young you produce. They come from soft water and are found in a range of colour forms with orange and red being the more popular.

 

[AmyKieran]

What about Apistogramma cacatuoides instead of rams?
They are better looking, easy to keep and breed, and you can sell any young you produce. They come from soft water and are found in a range of colour forms with orange and red being the more popular.

They look awesome, I’ll show my wife

 

[Wills]

No I actually have soft water, but I buffer my water for my Africans

I’m thinking getting rid of everything in there, and replacing with rams and livebearers?

Ah ok that does change things then haha

Rams and live bearers are not going to work - Rams need hot, soft, clean water and livebearers need cool, hard water.

Rams are tough to keep, no other way to put it. There are other Dwarf Cichlids that are equally as nice but not as complex to keep, a couple of my favourites are Apistogramma Panduro or Laetacara Dorsigera. Tons and tons of options though.

Tankmate wise you would be able to have a school of Tetras, clasic Neons would be cool but again loads of options like Black Neons, Platinum Tetras or you could have a huge school of Ember Tetras. Your tank is big enough for some catfish too - I'd for a couple of Red Lizard Whiptails which stay quite small but also good colour and interesting behaviour.

Wills

 

[AmyKieran]

Ah ok that does change things then haha

Rams and live bearers are not going to work - Rams need hot, soft, clean water and livebearers need cool, hard water.

Rams are tough to keep, no other way to put it. There are other Dwarf Cichlids that are equally as nice but not as complex to keep, a couple of my favourites are Apistogramma Panduro or Laetacara Dorsigera. Tons and tons of options though.

Tankmate wise you would be able to have a school of Tetras, clasic Neons would be cool but again loads of options like Black Neons, Platinum Tetras or you could have a huge school of Ember Tetras. Your tank is big enough for some catfish too - I'd for a couple of Red Lizard Whiptails which stay quite small but also good colour and interesting behaviour.

Wills

Thankyou for the help wills I really appreciate it
And also help from everyone else

 

[Deleted member 149562]

I shall chime in here.....my Rams (4 gold and 1 blue) live with my other varied hooligans (including my Apisto Viejita) in 25 degree (Eheim preset heaters) water, 7.2 pH bottled water.....they reproduce quite nicely without permission to do so. One of my gold Rams had chummied up with a solo blue wagtail Platy that I rescued from a deceased neighbour's aquarium last year (the Ram and Platy go everywhere together and the Ram protects it like a guard dog)

I have heard so many times that Rams can be tetchy little blighters but mine are perfectly well behaved, have no issues with sharing their space with each other and the rest of the hooligans....granted the offspring get eaten before they can get to a size where they can fight back, but they do it frequently and without any incentive.

Maybe my Rams are not normal Rams (I shall blame my supplier for that since they bred them)....but they are so well behaved and so healthy and totally into reproduction and thriving despite flying right against all the textbooks

Maybe I am just very fortunate to have unfussy Rams.

 

[Wills]

Maybe I am just very fortunate to have unfussy Rams.

You are lol the sheer number of Rams this forum has seen fade away in weeks/months is traumatic.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

You are lol the sheer number of Rams this forum has seen fade away in weeks/months is traumatic.

On the left....my camerashy Apisto with a couple of Rams. On the right a couple of the Rams with the Platy (and rescued Danio) tween them

Happy as larry....and not easy to get a decent photo of lol

I have had the Rams for about 4 years now, the Apisto for about 2 years

 

[Byron]

There are usually exceptions to any general aspect of fish keeping, but one cannot (or should not) rely on exceptions but on normality.

Rams--the common blue ram and all the colour and fin varieties is the species Mikrogeophagus ramirezi. Wild caught fish need parameters the same as their habitat, and they need warmth, in the 82-86F/28-30C. Temperature is crucial, and it limits tankmates as many "tropical" fish species cannot tolerate or manage in such high temperatures on a permanent basis. Soft acidic water is crucial as harder water leads to calcium blockage of internal organs.

Commercially raised fish of this species tend to do best when kept in parameters close to those in which they were hatched/raised. This does not mean the store water parameters, but the parameters of the water at the hatchery be it personal or commercial. It is not always easy to ascertain these. Soft and slightly acidic to slightly basic water usually works with these fish. Again note, we are not including wild caught fish. Warmth has been shown to improve success; same range as previously given. Obviously, this limits tankmates. Some of the pencilfish are good here as dither fish; cardinal tetras and even more the green neon tetra (but not the common neon tetra) work well, they love warm water. No cories, they cannot manage high temperatures on a permanent basis.

These fish have a normal life expectancy of four to five years. It is possible to have them live longer, if the above is followed, but no guarantees.