Distinguishing 2 Similar Species

[Nevergone815]

The title explains it all, does anyone know the exact differences to look for when looking at a red terror to decide whether its a true or a false one. thanks in advanced for the help

 

[Aprilia997]

The first and biggest clue is the spot at the base of the tail. Festae have a smaller spot which is slightly above the middle of the tail base while false red terror have a spot which covers the base of the tail.

 

[Gatorbait]

I agree with Aprilia997. The tail spot is only on half the base with the festae and the whole base of the tail with the Urophthalmus.

Not always but in general, the festae has a much brighter red coloration than a Uro. I wouldn't use this as a definition of the two but moreso as one factor in helping tell the difference.

As adults, the festae get much bigger. I've had a festae that was 11" and I've heard of others that were 12"-13" but the Uro only gets to about 8".

 

[Nevergone815]

Could you post pictures of the spot on the tail so I can see better? I'm assuming the base of the tail is where the tail starts. There's a red terror at the lfs thats listed as a "true red terror" its a female, about six inches standard lenght, she has not metallic, can't remember her tail, she has black banding on a deep orange/red body, she's by herself, and looks like shes been through a lot (a bit beat up) so the coloring could be off. I'm interested in her and have put her on hold, she's $20, I just wanted to research to see if she really is true or not. She'll be going into a 75 gallon with a 8 inch female jack dempsy and a 7 inch sailfin pleco. Thanks a lot!

 

[Gatorbait]

Could you post pictures of the spot on the tail so I can see better? I'm assuming the base of the tail is where the tail starts. There's a red terror at the lfs thats listed as a "true red terror" its a female, about six inches standard lenght, she has not metallic, can't remember her tail, she has black banding on a deep orange/red body, she's by herself, and looks like shes been through a lot (a bit beat up) so the coloring could be off. I'm interested in her and have put her on hold, she's $20, I just wanted to research to see if she really is true or not. She'll be going into a 75 gallon with a 8 inch female jack dempsy and a 7 inch sailfin pleco. Thanks a lot!

There will be a lot of pics on Google. Just do a search for festae.

BTW, a 75g will be way too small for a festae, jd and pleco, imo.

I've never had a Jack Dempsey before but have had festae and they are very very mean and nasty fish. I think the festae would almost certainly kill your JD after a few days of settling in your tank. JMO.

 

[Nevergone815]

Its not a permanant home lol. I jsut thought it would be better for htem until I got the 125 to put my JD and some of my other cichlids in there. i have a few 55 gallons. The festae is a little wimpy thing if you saw it in the lfs. I'm not even 100% sure I'll be getting it. Also, its a female so the aggression should be alot less than that of a male. Also, the red terror is only 6", i hear that they dont usually get aggressive until they are over 8" in size and that they will grow 1/2 (at the fastest) per month. so I have a few months until then and my 125 will be ready. Whats the worst that happens? The festae is a bit over the top and I put my JD back into the 55 for a couple more months until the 125 is ready? I have back ups dont worry. I may be new to festae (if she is in fact a "true" one), but not to cichlids .

 

[Gatorbait]

Ok, just letting you know.

Female festae are sometimes as aggressive as males and even more aggressive than males when breeding.

They do grow slow in comparison to other large cichlids. The 8" until they are aggressive is a myth. I hear a lot of people say that but they're wrong. It's true that when small they are less aggressive but I've had aggressive ones at 4" or 5" before. It all depends on the individual fish. Chances are, the JD will be more aggressive when she is first put in but after a while that will change as JD's aren't that high up on the aggression scale from what I've read about them.

You never mentioned earlier it was temporary, you made it sound like it was permanent, so sorry bout that.

BTW, I hope it works out for you.

 

[Nevergone815]

i jsut went back and read it myself too, My apologies as well .

I've heard theat male festae can take down red devils and midas easily even in a 350 gallon while without the festae the other 2 didn't bother anyone, but the festae is an evil thing. The fish looks like its been beaten into submission and hte JD is a female (no males, of any species that can interbreed with them, will EVER go into that tank for obvious reasons ). I'll put them together as both the "festae" (if its a true one) looks a bit docile compared to the stories i've heard and the JD can hold her own, but isn't overly aggressive for a JD's standard. I have a back up. Also, worse case scenario, the lfs said they would take it back full refund if it didn't work out with my fish. i have a great relationship with the owner and most of the employees there.

I'll definately keep what you said in mind and move htem after the first signs of stress on either of them (outside of the initial territory disputes) which if those get out of line i'll move them promptly.

The "true" red terror (s its labeled at the lfs) is a deep orange almost red, does that have anything to do with determining if it is a true or false or is it just a mood thing? I looked at pictures on google and both the true and false looked much brighter orange than the one in the lfs looked.

I got a good idea how to tell the difference between the 2 and will have to take a better look when i go back to the lfs later this week.

Like i said, I'll keep what you said in mind and seperate if needed. thanks for the help And thanks for the good luck wish

 

[Gatorbait]

NP.

It will be very hard to judge by the colors especially since they are at the lfs, which most fish won't show their true colors in that environment. Like I said earlier, generally, festae are a brighter color but that's not the case 100% of the time and shouldn't be used as the only thing to look for. The best way is what Aprilia mentioned earlier, look at the spot on the caudal fin and that way you'll know for sure.

Is there a way to get a picture of the fish and post it here? We could tell you 100% that way if you can get a side shot.

 

[Nevergone815]

I could try going to the lfs tomorrow, but no promises. I'll try to go and snap a shot, I only have a digital camera that i'll have to borrow from a friend. (no camera on the phone ) So it could be a bit of time. It's in a 20 gallon (long) right now, so that could very well be it. They really aren't eqiped for many large fish and their bigger tanks are filled already with oscars, firemouths and convics and such right now (not all in one of course ). I think it was a trade in, someone got it somewhere else and it outgrew their tanks. The lfs is pretty good about only stocking what they can manage. I'll take a look and try to get down there, but no promises . I can't remember the exact location of the spot, but I think it's centered and i don't remember seeing there being a "Y" shape on the first 2 stripes ( i was told this somewhere else, but isn't 100% reliable way to tell). I was told by many (other forums), that the spot was the only way to tell for sure. I'm leaning towards it being a "false", I've doen research on both of them jsut in case.

Again, I'll try to get down there tomorrow . Thanks again!

 

[Gatorbait]

The other forums are correct that the only 100% way is the spot on the tail.

I'm excited to see and also see if it works out for you. You'll have a much better chance with a female festae than a male, that's for sure. Looking forward to the pics if/when you can get them.

I hope you post back and let us know how it works out for you or if you try it or not.

 

[Nevergone815]

Oh I'll post back don't you worry!!!

I love to let people know if things work or not. The thing I love about fish is that NOTHING is really set in stone. EVERYTHING depends solely on the individual fish and that varies greatly between age, personality, past experiences of the fish, etc. etc. etc.

Either way, good or bad, you guys will find out if it worked or not. Of course, I'm going to have ot wait a bit because I quarenteen every fish before adding it into my system. So it will probably be in another tank for a while (a couple weeks) to make sure it is safe and didn't pick up any stress illnesses from its many travels she had recently.

 

[Aprilia997]

If it is a female festae it will have a dark blue-to almost green area in the middle of the dorsal fin. Female uro's if they have a spot will be quite small in size and a dusky black-grey. From the sound of your description your new fish is a female festae.

 

[Nevergone815]

I'll try ot get to the lfs tomorrow and get pics. Then you guys should be able to tell for sure (hopefully if my pics are good enough)...

 

[Nevergone815]

ok so today when I went to get you guys pics, I caved in and got her. She is a little ummm... angry to say the least (she doesn't like bags too much ) Well she was settleing in the quarenteen tank for now and I decided ot snap a few pics (7 to be exact). The net is not the one I used to put her into the tank (I have a bigger one for that), but I used it to lure her closer to the glass in hopes I can get a better pic of her. Can you tell fro mthese pics if she is true or false?

Thanks for following!!! I'l let you know more as she settles in and if it works out between her and her temp home with the JD in a couple weeks after quarenteen!!

-Joe-