Disgusted With P@h

As Rusty said, there are some good ones about, as with most branched stores. However, management failure (sp?) about teaching staff compatibility of fish and water chemistry, cannot be blamed for leaving dead fish in tanks, or just lack of cleaning. Again, I know this is a generalisation.

Regardless of whether or not we stop visiting them or talking about them, people who are not as well informed on the subject, or who are too impatient to wait to cycle the tank as told by other stores, will use these type of places as an easy alternative. I think it's just a shame that there is no kind of authority to report these places to, rather than hoping it will stop happening.

Skittles

Yeah, my local P@H sometimes has poor perished fishies, I usually point them out as the staff always look busy, I never see anyone with nothing to do in the shop.

Their tanks are pretty clean, only the odd water spill marks from the often fish sales. I think they have 1 small tank with an algae problem, but its fishless anyway, so i presume they are treating it.

They also have 2 set-up medicine tanks, and I hardly ever see ill fish. The biggest losses come on a friday, delivery day, as their stockists are sending the fish far too young and the stock is getting stressed and obviously cannot cope. The people I speak to in the shop have tried to amend this, but the stockist is unreceptive, and the manager cannot be bothered to do anything about it.
 
Yeah, my local P@H sometimes has poor perished fishies, I usually point them out as the staff always look busy, I never see anyone with nothing to do in the shop.

Their tanks are pretty clean, only the odd water spill marks from the often fish sales. I think they have 1 small tank with an algae problem, but its fishless anyway, so i presume they are treating it.

They also have 2 set-up medicine tanks, and I hardly ever see ill fish. The biggest losses come on a friday, delivery day, as their stockists are sending the fish far too young and the stock is getting stressed and obviously cannot cope. The people I speak to in the shop have tried to amend this, but the stockist is unreceptive, and the manager cannot be bothered to do anything about it.


That's always good to see, as not many places do have proper quarantine tanks. It's great that your local one, is concerened about the welfare of fish, and as I know you have said before, they do deliver a good service and some nice fish. :)
It's sad that a manager doesn't share their concerns. :/
 
Yeah their manager is apparently a bit of a turd.

He refuses ordering in fish even though he's guaranteed sales at the end of the day.
He even refuses to order in fish for his own staff.

Guy really doesn't know how to make money eh.
 
Now i have had a chance to calm down a bit i realise it wasn't so much the store that was at fult but the staff they choose to leave in charge of the care and well being (although P@H obviously do the hiring and training), of the live stock. If P@H made it some sort of policy to have at least one lead staff member that was passionate about fish then the stores would be much better.

I know if i were looking after the aquatic section there would be no dead fish in the tanks and the younger members of staff wouldn't be selling people fish the customers tanks weren't ready for.

Working in a pet shop is a minimum wage payed job. Training costs money, which combined with the low pay is the reason why so many pet shop staff are so clueless. And if the person training the staff is pretty clueless about fish themselves, then you are not going to end up with great results. A lot works against the favor of pet shops that sell fish turning out well;

There are hundreds (if not thousands) of fish available in the hobby and many pet shops will stock 50+ varieties of fish. To know everything important about those fish is takes a lot of research (you've also got to have good resources- there are loads of internet websites out there offering incorrect information about fish- i've seen sites stating things like goldfish (regardless of variety) only needing 10gals per goldie or saying stuff like how you can have one livebearer (regardless of type) per gallon etc. Even when you come onto a good fish forum, anyone can still offer advice.

Then you have the fish themselves. A great deal of pet shop fish arrive sick to begin with (many a time have i seen bags of freshly arrived guppys/platys ridden with whitespot/ich, or goldfish which such concaved bellys they could be suffering from any manner of the numerous diseases/parasites or conditions that can cause something like weight loss in a fish etc.
And even to someone very familiar with fish diseases & parasites, perfect indendfication of fish problems can still be a problem since so many fish diseases & parasites share the same symptoms (i could list many symptoms that share 4-5+ diseases/parasites/problem sources in common). When i used to be very active on this forum (once upon a time i used to log onto here almost everyday for years on end) i used to spend a great deal of time helping people in the fish emergencies section. But even with being so familiar with fish diseases & parasites, there were plenty of times when i came across stumbling blocks and could only round down a fishes problems to a small number of possible causes rather than a definite specific one.

There is also the cost of treating fish- fish medications are very expensive (£15's for a bottle of anti internal bacterial medication that only treats up 200gals worth of water and needs repeated treatments to work anyone? Even on a medium size tank you can sometimes easily use an entire bottle of medication treating sick fish successfully), while the fish themselves in comparison often cost the pet shop pennies. Pet shops are often not particularly profitable businesses, and often it works out cheaper to replace fish than to save them (harsh i know, but its the main reason why a lot of pet shops don't bothering medicating a lot of fish).

The fish themselves are often not the main money makers either- its the tanks & equipment etc that go with them that often make the largest profits. So as long as there is a regular stream of people coming into the shop to buy tanks, heaters, filters, decorations, substrates, fish food, fish medications etc then there will always be a steady profit. (Tho i still don't get the sense of dooming fish to death by selling them to any old customer makes good business sense as the customer will surely not come back again if their fish all die?)

Then there is the way that a lot of people view fish. Unfortunately, despite been scientifically proven to feel pain, to have both long term & short term memomories, to have complex behaviour etc, most people still view fish as dumb creatures that so stupid that they barely realise their own existence. People simply don't view them as being on the same level as other animals. So on top of everything else, it can be a mission just getting people to care about fish at all. When a fish dies, it is often simply flushed down the toilet or thrown in the bin like its a peice of rubbish, a broken decoration (which to a lot of people, unfortunately is what a fish ultimately are- just a limitedly amusing toy for the kid or a colourful creature to make an aquarium look pretty etc).

The tank conditions in pet shops are also stressful. In the constant noise & glare of customers, often there is nowhere to hide. With no medications present in the water & often a single filtration system that runs all tanks, diseases & parasites can spread like wildfire. The fish are often starved & highly stressed before they even arrive, having suffered temperature fluctuations over a long scary journey etc. Then when they arrive in this overstocked diseased tank (and possibly not even acclimatised properly), their long term suvrival for even lasting a couple of weeks is not looking great. A lot of pet shop fish die within just days of entering their tanks- even if the staff are picking out dead fish everyday, suddden deaths can happen a lot.

Meh...There are a lot of reasons like this (and more) as to why so many pet chain shops like Pets At Home have tanks full of dead or dying fish and staff who are completely clueless or blasé about the fishes plights. It is very sad, very sad...But i doubt much will ever change. There is sometimes more hope in the smaller more privately run pet shops (particularly those who specialise towards fish).
I felt pretty depressed about the state of LFS before i moved to a new area & came across this great LFS called Aquajardin; their tanks are beautiful, their fish very healthy and on every tank they have put labels listing the basic care of the fish in question (for example "Grows to X size", "Predatory, will eat small fish", "Is solitary" or "Must be kept in a shoal" etc). The staff also seem to have some sense about keeping common popular fish, and ask customers about their tank set ups (for example i was talking about moving some fry to another tank and the girl asked me how long the tank had been set up for etc). So there is still hope ^_^b .

Do you boycott or not boycott though when it comes to the bad stores? I can't really say for certain. It depends. In some cases yes, but its a complicated cup of tea and thats another debate altogether (plus i've waffled on way too long lol) :) .
 
I felt pretty depressed about the state of LFS before i moved to a new area & came across this great LFS called Aquajardin; their tanks are beautiful, their fish very healthy and on every tank they have put labels listing the basic care of the fish in question (for example "Grows to X size", "Predatory, will eat small fish", "Is solitary" or "Must be kept in a shoal" etc). The staff also seem to have some sense about keeping common popular fish, and ask customers about their tank set ups (for example i was talking about moving some fry to another tank and the girl asked me how long the tank had been set up for etc). So there is still hope ^_^b .

Do you boycott or not boycott though when it comes to the bad stores? I can't really say for certain. It depends. In some cases yes, but its a complicated cup of tea and thats another debate altogether (plus i've waffled on way too long lol) :) .

My local pets at home does all the above. Each fish species is clearly labelled and has;

Difficulty to keep
Size they grow to
Peaceful - aggresive
Do not keep with :

I do think they need to add "will need a tank atleast X size"

Biggest problem i see in pets at home, is customers blatently lying about their tanks. I usually see them a few days later complaining about dead fish.
I'm trying to do my bit my teaching what little I know to the unknowing staff, so they can pass the advice on to the customers.

If they have happy customers, they get more custom. More custom means they can get more and rarer fish, meaning I profit.
 
I'm in awe! Lol Very well said Sir Pheonix!

Aquajardin was mentioned in PFK recently I think, very jealous it's your LFS!

Sadly there's not much you can do about customers lying, from saying the tank's still in the cardboard box, to saying it's a different one and they've got another one that's been running for weeks on end. Unfortunately you can only advise. I once had a guy who wanted to put 2 male bettas together because his tank was very boring with just one. When i explained they'd probably kill each other, he said it would be entertaining to watch. At that point I suggested he leave, but he probably went on to another store and told them a pack of lies.

Ho hum.
 
I'm in awe! Lol Very well said Sir Pheonix!

Aquajardin was mentioned in PFK recently I think, very jealous it's your LFS!

Sadly there's not much you can do about customers lying, from saying the tank's still in the cardboard box, to saying it's a different one and they've got another one that's been running for weeks on end. Unfortunately you can only advise. I once had a guy who wanted to put 2 male bettas together because his tank was very boring with just one. When i explained they'd probably kill each other, he said it would be entertaining to watch. At that point I suggested he leave, but he probably went on to another store and told them a pack of lies.

Ho hum.

I think I would have been suggesting he left through gritted teeth and some bunched fists...

The only time I lied to my pets at home was when we got our Betta, as pets at home refuse to sell them unless someone's tank has been set up for 6 months, whereas mine had been cycled for just over a month and was ready. I can see why they'd have the 6 month rule though, as it stops people who don't know about cycling from dumping a fighter into an uncycled tank.

They unfortunately only do the whole "has it been set up for a week?" but with most of the other species though. But as someone else mentioned another time, if they made every customer wait 4 weeks before buying fish they'd be out of business.
 
my local P@H is quite good as the woman in there stated she keeps fish herself and that she use to work at hampsons also in the area and stated that she left her previous post at hampsons because they were feeding the fish steroids and that when the fish left the shop and were fed general food that they began to wither. (true as i bought my first two fish from there which died.
she would not sell me fish at first and after i explained the week after that i had used mature media she teted my water for three days and then allowed me to buy fish. (minimal choice)
 
Has i've mentioned before on P@H topics that pop up every few weeks...you get good & bad across all stores whether it be this chain,maidenhead aquatics or the common lfs,the latter two normally remove dead fish when they see them,whereas chains like P&H the dead fish go un-noticed most of the time due to staff being too busy elsewhere.

I've been to lfs' where they have had dead fish in a net still above the tank,obviously scoped them out before the were noticed by customers but forget to discard them...

I dont agree with what stores do to their poor fish,but at the end of the day it comes down to ill trained staff,with not enough knowledge to pass on to un suspecting customers....and this will un-fortunately continue....

I do go to P&H for dog food and odd bits for the fish etc,but draw a line at buying fish.
I've always found them polite & helpful.
 
they offer replacement fish if they die within two weeks of purchase
 
they offer replacement fish if they die within two weeks of purchase
Not always. I phoned after one died 5 days later and they said tough luck so on that principle and the fact that they miss sold me the type of fish in the first place (Gold Gourami claiming it to be completely peaceful with all fish and a perfect community tank mate killing almost all my Tetras & Harlequins ) and wouldn't even take the other one back free means I won't be using them again.

They also knew less about fish than me and I know nothing really as I have only had a tank for about 2 months now and learning what I can on here and through friends who keep fish too.
 
I'm starting to think my LFS isn't so bad now :blink:
 
I'm starting to think my LFS isn't so bad now :blink:


My brother warned me off the one i used to use some 10 years ago saying it is rubbish these days. I was there last Sat and yes it was looking a bit dirty but every tank was spotless and every fish looked perfect. I think i'll stick to the shop i know from now on
 
My LFS is in a garden centre and it's only 15 minutes walk away from my house and there's a bus that goes past it (I don't drive, so I'm lucky to have one that doesn't involve and hour and a half bus ride!)

20 years ago they were terrible and none of us would by fish there but they've come on leaps and bounds really. Ok, they're not perfect, but I very rarely see more than one or two dead fish in the tanks. They do quarantine, even if it is only for 10 days or so and their tanks have good info on the fish's size and compatability; I sometimes think they slightly under-estimate the the eventual size of some things (common Plecs; 12" for instance) but it's a start.

I asked one of the staff about one of the fish once and she said, "I don't know, can you wait for the boss to come back from lunch and he'll tell you" which I thought was really great; some shop's staff would have just made something up.
 

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