Difference between using epsom or marine reef salt for bloat?

[didz04]

Hi i'm asking on behalf of someone, trying to help them out.
As per title what is the difference please?They have a fish which they are saying bloat in their swim bladder. They tried epsom salt but if they tried marine reef salt will it be any better?

 

[Essjay]

Marine reef salt is mainly sodium chloride with a few other salts in the mix. It can be used to help damaged fins etc heal as it's a mild antiseptic. Plain sodium chloride (eg aquarium salt) will work just as well.
Epsom salts are magnesium sulphate and are used for drawing fluid out of tissues. This is the one to try for dropsy.

Neither will work if the fish has a bad infection whether bacterial, viral or protozoan.


I'm not sure what is meant by bloat in the swim bladder?

 

[didz04]

Sorry i think its swim bladder disorder they mentioned.

If they should carry on with treatment will epsom salt be better?

 

[didz04]

How will they know if its bacterial, viral or protozoan?

 

[Essjay]

Colin_T has written many times that what most people think of as swim bladder disease is actually air trapped in the intestines which comes from feeding at the surface, and from air in dried food. The 'cure' for this is to not feed dried food for a week, only 'wet' food.

Swim bladder disease is when the fish sinks to the bottom of the tank whenever it stops actively swimming. If the fish is not doing this, it doesn't have swim bladder disease, as explained by Colin_T so try feeding 'wet' food instead of dry for a week (live or thawed out frozen daphnia, brine shrimps etc).
If it is sinking to the bottom when not actively swimming, there is no cure, I'm afraid


It is difficult to tell the cause of an internal infection. The only way to be sure is a necropsy after the fish has died. External infections are easier to diagnose because we can see the physical symptoms.

 

[didz04]

Sorry i'm a bit unsure if they can be condition, but is swim bladder disorder different to when a fish is bloated where they float to top or sink to bottom and can't swim properly?

As they mentioned like swim bladder problem and i'm quite sure they also mentioned bloat. So i'm a bit confused if its the same thing? Thanks

 

[didz04]

Colin_T has written many times that what most people think of as swim bladder disease is actually air trapped in the intestines which comes from feeding at the surface, and from air in dried food. The 'cure' for this is to not feed dried food for a week, only 'wet' food.

Swim bladder disease is when the fish sinks to the bottom of the tank whenever it stops actively swimming. If the fish is not doing this, it doesn't have swim bladder disease, as explained by Colin_T so try feeding 'wet' food instead of dry for a week (live or thawed out frozen daphnia, brine shrimps etc).
If it is sinking to the bottom when not actively swimming, there is no cure, I'm afraid


It is difficult to tell the cause of an internal infection. The only way to be sure is a necropsy after the fish has died. External infections are easier to diagnose because we can see the physical symptoms.
T

 

[didz04]

Thanks for the response i'll try to which for sure it is.

 

[Essjay]

Colin_T is the disease expert. He says that actual swim bladder problems are rare, it's nearly always trapped air.

Ask what the fish does - sink when not actively swimming (swim bladder disease) or float (trapped air).

 

[didz04]

If it is the treatable bloat should they cary on with epsom salt, raise temp, feed peas or cucumber? Will it be better carrying on with epsom salt instead of reef salt? How many days should they try it for if there isn't improvement trying again?

 

[didz04]

They were about to euthanise them with clove oil but i mentioned to them it might not be lethal and curable. As quite sure i heard bloat isn't that bad

 

[Essjay]

If it's trapped air, you don't need to use any treatment, just feed something that isn't flakes or pellets. Peas or cucumber would work as well as daphnia, brine shrimp etc. Try it for a week.


But just for completion - does the fish show any other physical signs such as the scales sticking out when looked at from above? That's dropsy. Epsom salt baths* can be tried, but often by the time the fish reaches this stage, it's too late. Dropsy is a symptom of an underlying disease, and when the disease has caused kidney failure, the body swells up and the scales stick out. There is no cure for kidney failure (in humans we can use dialysis and kidney transplants but not with fish)
*Epsom salts baths - 1 teaspoonful per gallon/4 litres of tank water in a tub. Place the fish in the tub for up to 15 minutes but remove the fish instantly if it becomes distressed.

 

[didz04]

I'll find out about the scales. Thank you

 

[Colin_T]

If you can get a 60 second video of the fish swimming and then when it stops swimming, that might help shed some light on the problem. And some photographs might help too.

You can upload the video to YouTube and copy & paste the link here. We can view it at YouTube.

 

[Fishiemang]

Juss tossin in the other half of your initial question....

Epsom Salt is not really a "salt" in the sodium sense. It is a combination of Magnesium and Sulfer. Is why the actual name for it is Magnesium Sulfate. You have ingested tons of this over your life. They use it to stop heart attacks. If you have ever had a Dasani water, you've drank it. If you have gallstones, and suffer an attack, you can use it to stop the attack. Immediately. It is a powdered natural form of 2 essential minerals for optimum cellular function. It can be used in your garden to increase bloom and growth.

It does nothing for bloat, or disease, in the sense of being a treatment. It provides essential electrolytes to the water to improve the fishes immune response......amongst other things.