Diagnostic Help

[gwand]

I am treating an a. cacatuoides for presumed camallanus. He had a reddish brown worm sticking out of his butt, clamped fins and lethargy. I am 48 hours into treatment with fenbenzadole but I don’t see much improvement. No obvious worms but his stomach area looks inflamed. Any ideas?

 

[MaloK]

I'm afraid it will take up to 3 weeks before signs of remission.

You can make food to create an attack dose it will boost a little the effects.

But be aware that overdosing will irritate the fish stomachs.

 

[MaloK]

I always suggest to use the food, because the faster the parasites are expelled the faster the fish can get it's strength back when eating.

 

[gwand]

I'm afraid it will take up to 3 weeks before signs of remission.

You can make food to create an attack dose it will boost a little the effects.

But be aware that overdosing will irritate the fish stomachs.

Do I dose weekly with the antibiotic? And if so if I do weekly 25% water exchange do I add 1/4 dose after water change?

 

[MaloK]

Habitually it would be 3 course over 3 weeks with a water change after 24-48 hours IIRC. Vacuum to remove paralyzed worms from the substrate.

Product may vary on that point. Depending on the severity 2-3 weeks is advisable.

Don't add more medication after the water changes until the next course.

 

[GaryE]

The parasite bites into the intestinal wall, so even if they are killed, they have done damage and inflammation is normal (it's strange to talk like this with a doctor!). Infection at the sites of the bites can still kill the fish. It is a pretty horrible parasite.

That's when anti-vaxxer logic kicks in and people say the med killed their fish.

Prazi on tapeworms is fast, but nematode treatments on Camallanus can be difficult ones.

 

[gwand]

Even a doctor can learn something newThanks.

 

[gwand]

What causes camallanus. I am religious about doing weekly water changes. The tank is definitely not overstocked. I recently fed the tank black worms. Can these worms be a vector for?camallanus?

 

[GaryE]

I find them interesting. For a very long time, they were unheard of. I first saw them in the early 90s, and the affected fish died like flies. I wasn't able to find info on how they got established in fish farms, or where they are in the wild. I admit, I haven't looked for that since.

I thought it was the old parasite story - they had to mutate not to kill their new hosts too quickly or they couldn't spread.

if that is what happened, they have done it well. They are now a common parasite in farmed fish of all types. When it was new to me, I clearly bought fish with it, from a hobbyist who didn't know his new fish were infected (he had bought a lot and sold them upon arrival - he lost all of his too). It killed everything in 3 weeks or so. Now, it can live inside a host for a very long time, unnoticed. Sometimes when you notice, it's already too late.

I've dealt with it a few times, and expect it from pet shop fish, from any shop. That doesn't mean it's there, but I watch for that redness. I keep the meds on hand now. They used to be crazily expensive, but now are easy to get and reasonable, as befits a treatment for a common problem.

I'll wager either that fish came with it, or a tankmate did. He ate eggs from the substrate, and it was off and running.

 

[MaloK]

Other fish, Live food, intermediate hosts...

But the saddest part is that freezing is also not a guaranty of eradication.

Getting Frozen Food from Reputable Sources is also a good thing.

 

[gwand]

Other fish, Live food, intermediate hosts...

But the saddest part is that freezing is also not a guaranty of eradication.

Getting Frozen Food from Reputable Sources is also a good thing.

What brands do you recommend?

 

[gwand]

I find them interesting. For a very long time, they were unheard of. I first saw them in the early 90s, and the affected fish died like flies. I wasn't able to find info on how they got established in fish farms, or where they are in the wild. I admit, I haven't looked for that since.

I thought it was the old parasite story - they had to mutate not to kill their new hosts too quickly or they couldn't spread.

if that is what happened, they have done it well. They are now a common parasite in farmed fish of all types. When it was new to me, I clearly bought fish with it, from a hobbyist who didn't know his new fish were infected (he had bought a lot and sold them upon arrival - he lost all of his too). It killed everything in 3 weeks or so. Now, it can live inside a host for a very long time, unnoticed. Sometimes when you notice, it's already too late.

I've dealt with it a few times, and expect it from pet shop fish, from any shop. That doesn't mean it's there, but I watch for that redness. I keep the meds on hand now. They used to be crazily expensive, but now are easy to get and reasonable, as befits a treatment for a common problem.

I'll wager either that fish came with it, or a tankmate did. He ate eggs from the substrate, and it was off and running.

The sick a. cacatuoides arrived in October. He shares a tank with fish that arrived a year ago. No newcomers. Can the incubation period be so long or do you think like Malok said it could be from the live or frozen food?

 

[MaloK]

What brands do you recommend?

My experience is very limited in frozen food because, I have used Hikari Frozen products and never ever nothing else.

I never could foment a trouble in my head that would been cause by them...

And thrown to garbage cheap bulk dried flakes that we suspected to have worm eggs.

 

[MaloK]

The sick a. cacatuoides arrived in October. He shares a tank with fish that arrived a year ago. No newcomers. Can the incubation period be so long or do you think like Malok said it could be from the live or frozen food?

They have evolved to have a longer incubation period as you know, But sometimes the delay it takes before they become apparent can be quite long.

When in very low numbers the fish doesn't look affected and the time they multiply enough to become a threat can be pretty extensive in good clean water conditions.

But yeah they are there and working their way. A sneaky little monster.

 

[GaryE]

We know how they're transmitted- The nematode hangs out of the fish and sprays millions of eggs. The eggs are ingested. I can't see how that could get into live food. I've seen no connection.

My guess is the fish carried them the whole time, in a slow, gnawing infestation that exploded in time. But that's a guess.

I have never seen them in wild caught fish. Somewhere they got into farms and adapted. It took years before they were common. But how long they can lurk for? It's a good question, and something that may be changing as they adapt.