Designer fish

[Ziggy25]

I dont know what type they are, here are their pictures. I havent spoken to the LFS as i just found out today. I will be paying them a visit on saturday..


http/www.coding-zone.co.uk/emisc/fish/Image(129).jpg

http/www.coding-zone.co.uk/emisc/fish/Image(130).jpg

http/www.coding-zone.co.uk/emisc/fish/Image(131).jpg

 

[MegTheFish]

I don't see whats wrong with hybrid fish if you only want them as pets - as long as they're healthy!!!

I was about to say the same thing...whats so bad about them?

 

[sylvia]

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=80829

 

[Synirr]

There are plenty of other "designer fish" if you're not talking specifically about hybrids. Pretty much any veil-tailed fish variety doesn't exist in the wild, so there go fancy guppies and bettas...

Ziggy, I don't think the parrots would have been very compatible with some of the fish in your tank to begin with, so it's a good thing you're thinking of taking them back
They can get quite aggressive, and I'm not sure how well your mollies would hold up to them...

 

[Ziggy25]

There are plenty of other "designer fish" if you're not talking specifically about hybrids. Pretty much any veil-tailed fish variety doesn't exist in the wild, so there go fancy guppies and bettas...

Ziggy, I don't think the parrots would have been very compatible with some of the fish in your tank to begin with, so it's a good thing you're thinking of taking them back
They can get quite aggressive, and I'm not sure how well your mollies would hold up to them...

They havent caused any troubles to any of the other fish yet. I think the main reason is that they are in a big tank and plenty of places to run away to

 

[jimw13uk]

I don't see whats wrong with hybrid fish if you only want them as pets - as long as they're healthy!!!

I was about to say the same thing...whats so bad about them?

Each person has their own opinion on this and there are hundreds of threads around in lots of fish forums about this very topic.
In the end you have to make your own choice and I may disagree with them completely but I know others who dont see a problem with them - thats fine.

The cross breeding and inter-breeding is one thing that will always happen (it happens in the dog world as well) but the dyeing of fish is something which should be banned as that is cruel and barbaric

 

[SirMinion]

Cross breeding dogs is a rather different as all dogs from the biggest Great Dane to the smallest Pug are actually all the same species that have been selectively bred for different shapes.

Hybridisation is the combining of two different species, usually closely related, but different, like donkey/zebra=zedonk or Blue-gold macaw/greenwing macaw=catalina macaw
...or severam/red devil=parrot cichlid.

Hybridisation has different effects depending on how closely the species are related, closely related species often result in offspring with 'hybrid vigour' meaning that the offspring is bigger, stronger, healthier and often more attractive than either parent.
Ask any gardener why they always prefer to buy F1 hybrid seeds for their flowers & vegatables.

On the flip side, hybridising less compatable species can lead to congenital deformaties and sickly offspring.

Whether or not a hybrid is fertile or infertile is down to how many chromasomes they carry.
Are you ready for the science bit?

Chromasomes are the organells in each cell's nucleus that carry the genetic material for the organism. Chromasomes come in matched pairs.

When the body creates sex cells (eggs or sperm) in all organisms that reproduce sexually (including plants) the chromasomes seperate from their pairs, each half being carried by each egg or sperm.

When a sperm carrying half the father's genetic material material meets the egg carrying half the Mother's chromasomes, the chromasomes match up and re-pair with the corresponding chromasome from the other parent thus making a new individual with half of each parent's chromasomes.

So: if a species has, say 42 chromasomes, each sperm or egg carries 21 chromasomes after splitting. Then when they meet, they make 42 again.

If one parent has 42 and spits to carry 21 but the other parent of another species has, say 24 which splits to carry 12, then the offspring will carry 33 chromasomes.

When these 33 chromasomes come to split, there's an odd number! the eggs and sperm carry 'corrupt data' and don't work. The organism is infertile.

If the two species' halved chromasomes make a whole number when combined, such as 24 and 16, then the offspring will be fertile.

 

[jimw13uk]

Very interesting - I've copied that lot into my every increasing word document on Hybrids and Dyeing/Painting fish.

Thanks for that

 

[freddyk]

Some people are happy with what nature supplies, some feel humans can do better. The choice is personal, and humans have done a lot worse then genetic engineering in their history - there are worse things going on then genetic engineering. I admit I have a concern about the degradation of livestock in the hobby, but nobody else seems to care so I try not to.

 

[Synirr]

Cross breeding dogs is a rather different as all dogs from the biggest Great Dane to the smallest Pug are actually all the same species that have been selectively bred for different shapes.

This is something I find very interesting to think about. A rant is coming, so anyone who isn't interested in biology should feel free to tune this out

The fact is that there is no agreed-upon definition of "species" in biology. Fill a room with biologists and tell them they can't leave until they agree upon a definition of species, and probably only a couple will ever leave... the rest will have been killed during the debate . Call it natural selection.

Species generally have some kind of barrier that prevents them from producing offspring, be it geographic or biological. There are groups that exist today which are considered separate species, yet they can interbreed and produce healthy, fertile offspring. Lions and tigers can breed and produce ligers, and on rare occasion, a liger is even fertile; yet tigers and lions are separate species.

Can a chihuahua breed with a great dane? Not by natural means, no. Puppies could be created via artifical means I'm sure, but considering the differences between the two breeds, I'm not entirely sure those puppies would be healthy or even viable. Certainly not if the chihuahua were the female, because the puppies would be so big that even if the fetuses matured, the mother would die during the birthing process.
What I'm saying is that the scientific community considers all breeds of dog to be the same species, but if you really think about it, they could just as easily split them into different species or subspecies because there is no set definition of what a species is. There are breeds of dogs that are FAR more different from one-another than completely separate species of sage grouse, for example.

The root of the dilemma is that evolution occurs on a continuum, and science is attempting to draw lines where lines don't necessarily exist at all

It's up to you to figure out where my little rant fits in with the topic of this thread, lol

 

[Torrean]

this is an awesome thread.

 

[Synirr]

this is an awesome thread.

I agree. I finally got to get that species rant off my back!

 

[Teelie]

I posted my opinion on hybrids in the other thread that was linked above. This one for those who don't want to go looking for it.

 

[sevs]

Whoah. Way too much science for one sitting. I need a nap after reading that. Yawn!

 

[Ziggy25]

Took them back today... the guy at the LFS told me he cant give me a 100% refund but he will give me 80% refund (In credit).

I was happy with that. Now i need to decide what to buy with that credit

I dont have anything against anyone who keeps these fish, but me personally im just not confortable with it. I keep thinking whether the fish is happy, or its feeling its too fat for it liking.. B)