Decided To Track My Stats

marleth

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I've got 2 tanks, several numbers and lots of questions. After mixed advice from my lfs and greater consensus among the posters here and elsewhere, I decided to buy an API Master Test Kit because those 5-in-1 test strips were too difficult to decipher. As I'm still VERY new to this, I figured I better post my results after reading the colored water in the tubes.

2.5G Tank
Fish: 1 Male Betta Splendens
Age of Tank: 4 weeks
Filter: Undergravel system only

Test Results:
pH: 8.1
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: between 0 and 5ppm


10G Tank
Fish: 3 Danios, 1 Honey Sunset Blue Dwarf Guarami, 1 Otocinclus
Age of Tank: 2 weeks
Filter: Tetra Whisper Power Filter 10

Test Results:
pH: 7.5
Ammonia: .25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

After testing both tanks, I'm considering putting some gravel from the 2.5G in the 10G tank to speed up the cycling process.

Any suggestions?
 
Good choice, API freshwater master is a good kit to use, they are very reliable and accurate. Your betta tank appears to be cycled but the ten gallon is not even close because no nitrite is being produced. During a cycle, your ammonia will go up and will then start to fall as your nitrite goes up. Then the nitrate will go up, ammonia and nitrite will both fall to zero and your tank is cycled.

Put the gravel IN the filter, not on the bottom of the tank and you might get somewhere. Because the ten gal is not running an undergravel system, putting cycled gravel on the bottom won't do anything. A netting bag of cycled gravel in the filter will provide a source of bacteria that will then colonise the filter media. Put it next to the intake so the current washes some bacteria onto the rest of the media.

Test the pH of your tap water and give us the result. If it's coming out 8.1 and the pH in your ten gallon tank is 7.5 then acidification is occuring in the ten gal. This is common in cycling tanks but once you cycle it, the pH will skyrocket and your fish won't like it. You could also use peat or a pH down product to reduce the pH further while the tank cycles - 7.5 is still at the high end for tropical fish keeping and the lower the pH in a cycling tank, the less ammonia is free ammonia. It's a bit of fairly complicated chemistry - basically because ammonia is a base, at a higher pH, more of it is in its free form (NH4OH soluble ammonia) and less in its less toxic ionic form (NH4+). If you reduce the pH, more of the ammonia will become ammonium ions which are not as toxic.

Can you get peat? Try putting a bit in your filter, and a bit under the gravel in the betta tank because the pH is a bit too high. You could also use pH adjustors but they aren't always as easy as they look. The other option is oxyshells to correct pH but they are usually used to increase, not decrease, the pH. If the betta is happy and you can't get peat it might be safer to leave it.


The key thing to do right now though is to do water changes on the ten gallon. .25 is starting to get dangerous to fish. Do 50% straight away and then do at least 30% daily until the tank cycles. You have too many fish in it for a fish in cycle. If it's at all possible return the fish in the 10 gal to your LFS and do a fishless cycle. If it isn't try to get some mature media. There's a pinned topic in this board (new to the hobby) listing members willing to donate mature media. With such a small tank I'm sure somebody could spare enough media to cycle it instantly. You could also ask your LFS; even an old dirty sponge or one or two bio rings could really speed your cycle time. Failing that, you could use a bacteria supplement. They are basically bottled products that claim to add bacteria to your water. Most of them are useless because the bacteria are kept at low temperatures for extended periods with no food source and almost no oxygen. The only ones that actually work are Bactinettes (UK) Bio-spira (USA) and Aquarium Science Eco-start (Australia). Bactinettes and Bio-spira are refrigerated, Eco-start is freeze dried.

If you decide to persist with a fish-in cycle I strongly suggest that you return the oto and the gourami and cycle with the danios. Danios are tough fish that are often used for this purpose. Gouramis are well known for being extremely delicate and prone to dropsy and other internal bacterial infections. Otos prefer being kept in groups of three or four, but at this stage buying more fish is not an option; the less you have in your tank the better.

Good luck and keep us updated!
 
Agree with Laurafrog, nice writeup laura.

Good test kit choice marleth, and very clear presentation of stats. Continue your thread with further test results and notations of the actions you take. Test results mean more and more as you see trends.

I agree with Laura that the most important thing right now are more water changes to keep your fish in the 10g out of danger. You can repeat water changes after an hour and your goal is to devise a shedule of changes that keep the ammonia result going from zero to 0.25ppm and then back down again. You want to not give it the chance to go over 0.25ppm.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Ok, took Laura's advice I also asked the wife for some stockings that had a run or hole in them. Not exactly sure where I should place the borrowed gravel, I hung one foot? next to the intake slots of the filter, and I put the other foot in the filter where the water first collects before it goes through the bio-bag.


I also changed out 5 gallons of water. I need to get a bucket to make changing water a little easier. using 1G and .5G pitchers takes a long time.

Here are the readings an hour and a half after the water change.

pH: 7.5
Ammonia: somewhere under .25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

I will do a testing of the tap water tomorrow. The Mrs. wasn't too happy that I was running the bath water after 11:00 at night (it woke her up), and I want to test the water from the source I've been using instead of the sink. Don't know if it'll make a difference testing sink or tub tap water, but I'd like to eliminate as many variables as possible.

One other question I have is with the dechlorinator. I'm using Tetra Aquasafe, and I'm putting in the amount and then swirling it into the pitcher. Since it recommends 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons, I'm putting in a little less then 1/8 of a teaspoon per gallon pitcher that goes in. My question has two parts: 1) Can I put in too much dechlorinator this way? 2) Do I have to wait a certain amount of time after adding the dechlorinator before adding the water to the tank?
 
As of this second posting of stats it sounds like the 10g is at the very beginning of the cycling process and not processing even very much ammonia yet, so you may have many weeks of cycling and water changes ahead of you. At least its good that you've not seen any ammonia readings above .25 yet.

As the volume is only a 10g you do have the option of being helped by a new clean larger bucket, but you should be aware that if money is not an issue, there are now a wonderful selection of siphon/hose devices that allow you to connect up with the nearest bath or other faucet and not have to use buckets. I use a product called a Python (you can search on this) but there are other brands. Often one doesn't even need the whole device, just the faucet adapter that fits your particular faucet and the correct long length of clear hose. You can just run the long siphon from the tank to outdoors or to a tub and suck on the far end to get it started draining, then go back and gravel clean with the gravel cleaner cylinder part in the tank. Then to refill, you just dump half the recommended measure of conditioner straight into the tank, connect the adapter hose end to the faucet, roughly temp match the ingoing water, fill the tank (being careful not to overflow) and then dump in the second half of the conditioner measure.

Beginners worry way too much about the details of conditioner. Its powerful and quick and doesn't need any wait time. Once you have an established mature aquarium you can use excess amounts of it without worry, although no point as it costs money, but when you are cycling it is better to attempt to use the correct amount.. but still better to be a -small- amount over the recommended rather than under the recommended measure. The reason is that there is some thought that excess conditioner may slow development of the second bacterial species, the nitrite oxidizing bacteria, when the colony is very young.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Tank and Tap results:

10G Tank Results

pH: 7.5
ammonia: between .25 and .5
NO2: 0
NO3: 0

After testing, I changed out 2G of tank water. Figured that should atleast be 25% given the water displacement of the gravel, rocks, heater, and fake plants.

Tap Results

pH: 6.8
ammonia: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 0
 
The 10g looks likes it's gonna need a close eye on it. 0.5ppm ammonia is not great for your fish and you should be changing out about 25% of your water if your ammonia levels are that high. I think you have put too many fish in there too early so will probably have to do 25% water changes every day for a while to keep ammonia levels at 0.25ppm or less. With your gravel from your established tank helping things out you shouldn't have to wait too long before things begin to stablise. Good luck.

:good:
 
Today's Stats:

pH: 7.5
ammonia: .5
NO2: 0
NO3: 0

Bought a 4G bucket today, and will change out at least 3G of water. There are faint marks inside that let me know when the water level has reached 1, 2, 3, and 4G. It measures in L on the other side - up to 15L. Would it be dangerous to the fish to darken these with permanent marker (such as a sharpie) to make them easier to read?

Thanks everyone for your help so far. Will post the resulting stats after the 3G water change along with the stats on the 2.5G
 
Did a water change today of both tanks, and got some surprising results. :hyper: and yes I waiting over an hour before retesting the waters

10G

Before

pH: 7.5
NH: b/t .25 and .5
NO2 & NO3: 0

After a 3.25G water change

pH: 6.8
NH: <.25 and the closest I've ever seen it to 0 since I started testing. :good:
NO2 & NO3: didn't retest

2.5G

Before

pH: 8.2
NH: <.25
NO2: 0
NO3: <5ppm

After a .5G water change

pH: 8.0
NH: 0
NO2: didn't test
NO3: 0

Not quite sure what's keeping the pH so high in my 2.5G tank, but Fred, the Betta, doesn't seem too unhappy. Not exactly sure what I should be looking for with regards to his happiness, but he swims all over the tank and eats the bloodworms I give him each night.
 
Sounds like a happy, healthy and well fed betta! You could try giving him a frozen pea once or twice a week though because too many bloodworms can occasionally cause constipation. (Gotta say that because everybody says that but some of my bettas won't eat them.)

What sort of gravel are you using? Sometimes gravel contains something like coral sand or limestone which will increase the pH. With an undergravel you often get the opposite, water becoming more and more acid. I'm puzzled on that one.

The sign that ammonia is processing rather than being removed with water changes is seeing some nitrate being produced. When you start seeing nitrate it means the tank is well and truly on the way to being cycled. The most frustrating parts are usually waiting for nitrite and then nitrate to start being produced and then waiting for the nitrite to zero, which can take weeks and drive anybody absolutely batty. If you're managing to keep the ammonia well under .25 and the fish are not unhappy, you can probably keep them. What are you feeding? It's usually recommended to feed once every three days or less during a fish in cycle because the fish produce less ammonia. Just means less water changing.

Sounds like things are going well though and it's great to see somebody who actually cares about the fish's welfare, not just 'why can't I instantly cycle this tank?'. Good luck again!
 
What are you feeding? It's usually recommended to feed once every three days or less during a fish in cycle because the fish produce less ammonia. Just means less water changing.

Sounds like things are going well though and it's great to see somebody who actually cares about the fish's welfare, not just 'why can't I instantly cycle this tank?'. Good luck again!

I've been feeding the 10G TetraMin Fish flakes twice a day, and on Sunday and Wednesday, I toss in an algae disc for the otocinclus. This feeding regimen was recommended to me by the lfs. However, from my recent other posts, I have begun questioning everything they tell me. Especially when they tell me it's not too soon to put more fish in the tank. New Tank Syndrome must be their bread and butter. I'm glad I've found you guys.

I don't feel like a fish out of water in the fish store anymore. Gah, another fish pun :fun: .
 
I know the feeling with the local pet store. Now im stuck doing a Fish in cycle. They told me mostly lies. As for the feeding it should be at least every other day or the ammonia may get to high. Thats what I have been hearing anyways.
 
I feed my fish flakes once every other day, although I'm kind of irregular, sometimes feeding them a small amount on an in-between day and sometimes not feeding them at all until the 3rd day. I always have to remind myself that they are vertebrates, but not warm-blooded, right?

~~waterdrop~~
 
Not much different today.

pH: back to 7.5
NH: .5
NO2/NO3: 0

Did a 3.5G water change. Haven't retested. Really tired tonight. I am getting quicker at changing the water and filling the test tubes.

I'm trying to create a tank cycling mantra in hopes that it will speed the process along. :)

Skipped both feedings today for the 10G.
 
Fish don't actually need as much food as a lot of people give them. I knew somebody once who had a tank that was understocked, and even for months after doing a fishless cycle could not get the nitrite to come down, it was always slightly up. His fish were obese as well... I convinced him that they only needed to be fed once or twice a day, that they wouldn't get hungry, and that because their metabolisms were different from his or his dogs' he was actually doing them a disservice - we're talking about fish so darn fat they could barely swim! Soon as he cut back feeding to a reasonbable amount once a dam - bam, down goes the nitrite.

Feeding once a day or at least every second or third day generously is recommended, but to cut down or stop feeding for a week or two will not harm the fish. Most members don't bother about arrangements for fish feeding on here when they go away, unless they will be gone for more than two weeks or have fry or other sensitive fish that need daily feeding. So in a cycling tank the reduction of waste produced is worth the risk of not feeding (or feeding very little) for a week or two IMO.
 

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