Day 27 Of Fishless Cycling And Still No Nitrites

[aletas]

Hello everyone! I'm new to the hobby and I really need some help please!

I started a fishless cycle on Sept 20, but I still haven't had any readings of nitrites and it's been almost a month.

On day 1, I added enough ammonia to the dechlorinated water in my 20 gallon tank to bring the ammonia level to about 5 ppm and set the heater to 85º. By day 7 the ammonia dropped to 1 and I added a bit more ammonia to bring the level up to 4, still 0 nitrites. A few days later the ammonia dropped to 2 and remained at 2 for about a week so I added ammonia to increase the level up to 4 again. This has been the pattern basically the last two to three weeks; the ammonia drops to 2 and remains at 2, then I add more ammonia to bring the level back up to 4. I use the API liquid test kits and I test the ammonia and nitrite levels everyday. About 10 days ago I changed the power filter that came with the aquarium to an AquaClear and that same day a relative gave me a mature filter sponge from one of his tanks to seed my new filter, but I'm not sure if it's helping yet.

Even though nitrites are still at 0, I tested the tank for nitrates a couple of days ago and got a reading of 5.0, and my tap water shows 0 for nitrates. How can there be nitrates without ever having any nitrites? Temp remains at 85º, PH in tank and tap water are both at least 7.6. (I don't have a high range PH kit yet.) An aerating "turtle" has been in the tank since the 2nd week. Water is clear, but there's a bit of brown algae growing on the suction cup that holds the thermometer.

What am I doing wrong? Should I drain the tank and start over or do a partial water change? Did I mess everything up by changing the power filter?

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks.

 

[drobbyb]

The seeded filter sponge may have jumpstarted your cycle more than you realize. When you added the sponge, the bacteria contained within started working on your ammonia and nitrites at the same time. The fact that you are getting a nitrate reading shows that nitrites are being broken down.

To test this, add ammonia back to 4ppm and wait 24 hours. If your nitrates went up and your ammonia went down then you must be close to the end of your cycle.

 

[aletas]

Thanks for your quick reply! I'll try your suggestion and post the results tomorrow.

 

[chimera_786]

Dude...CONGRATS!!! ur tank just completed its cycling stage. Niiiiceee. Do 40ish % water change and your set! I would recommend looking for some beginner fish!!

 

[waterdrop]

It would be nice to reach the conclusion that the tank is cycled (and it might indeed be!) but to me it just doesn't seem like there's enough information in the aletas post to make a conclusion.

Near the end of a fishless cycle (assuming we're attempting the Add and Wait method here?) you should be adding pure ammonia to reach a 5ppm level once each 24 hours. The time when you add should be noted. Both ammonia and nitrite should measure at 0ppm 12 hours later, then ammonia should be added to 5ppm again at the 24 hour mark from when it was last added, not from when it reached zero. You should observe this behaviour happening for 5 to 7 days before doing the big water change and adding fish.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[aletas]

Hello everyone!

Thanks for your replies chimera_786 & waterdrop.

As suggested by drobbyb, I added 3ml ammonia last night to bring the ammonia level back up to 4ppm.

At 10am this morning I tested both the ammonia & nitrite again, 12 hours since adding the ammonia last night.
ammonia still at 4ppm (no change since last night)
nitrite 0ppm

I also tested for nitrates this morning and it remains at 5ppm (no change since I tested it 3 days ago). I think I'll get my husband to do that test from now on, all that shaking kills my arm.

The strange thing is I've never had a spike in nitrites, not even a trace since day 1 and occasionally I test for nitrites twice a day.

I've been keeping a log book since the beginning and I note the time, date and results when I test the water or add ammonia and I test the water close to the same time each day.

waterdrop: Yes, I've been doing the add & wait method, but I'm still adding the ammonia only when the level drops and that can take anywhere between 1 to 4 days on average. And when it does drop it doesn't go lower than 2ppm and it remains at 2ppm for days until I add more ammonia. Nitrites are always 0. I have a difficult time determining an accurate 5ppm level for ammonia when the scale jumps from 4 to 8 on the API kit, so that's why I aim for 4ppm when adding it. Would the difference of 1ppm of ammonia make a huge difference in the cycling process?

drobbyb: I'll test everything again at 10pm to see if anything has changed.

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[drobbyb]

I got my fingers crossed for you!

 

[waterdrop]

I'm not up to speed at all on this case. It sounds like the fishless cycle (what size tank?) is only 10 days old as that is when a new AquaClear was set up, but it was seeded with mature media (which should be great - I assume the media was from a freshwater mature tank and was kept wet during transfer.)

So with mature media seed going for 10 days, I would expect both some A-Bacs and N-Bacs present and ammonia should be dropping at least some. If it can't drop ammonia to zero, then either the seeding didn't help much and you are still basically at the start with not enough A-Bacs, or there is something wrong with the ammonia. I assume it passes all the tests of no fragrances, no dyes and when you shake it, it forms bubbles like water and not foam?

Talking about cycling prior to the new filter (with I assume new media except for the seeding bit) has no meaning as cycling that we care about takes place completely within the filter.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[aletas]

Thanks again drobbyb & waterdrop for your comments.

waterdrop: The ammonia doesn't contain any surfactants and it doesn't foam, so hopefully it's ok. Yes, the filter media was from a well established fresh water tank and it remained wet in a bag of tank water until I got it in to the new filter about an hour later. I have a 20 gallon tank.

When I tested the ammonia, nitrite & nitrate levels last night at 10pm, everything remained the same as the morning readings:
ammonia 4ppm
nitrite 0ppm
nitrate 5ppm

There's one slight change this morning:
ammonia 2ppm

Last night I noticed some tiny white fluffy looking stuff growing on the leaves on my plastic plant and it's suddenly appeared on the air tube too for my aerating turtle. What is this stuff? Should I try to remove it? It just appeared within the last day.

Guess I'll wait to see if anything changes tomorrow! Thanks for your help.

 

[OldMan47]

Aletas, to me it looks like the filter cloning did not work and as WD said you are on day 10 of a new cycle, not on day 30. If you have any plants or algae in the tank, it may be slowly absorbing the ammonia which would account for the slow drop you are seeing. The forced water circulation and air exchange will also very slowly remove some ammonia, because ammonia is just a gas dissolved in the water, so the gradual drop to 2 ppm is not out of the question with no bacteria at all. If you keep an eye on things and don't replace your filter media again, you should start to see some nitrites within the next week or two and be able to resume watching for a significant nitrate rise. If there are plants in the tank, the nitrates may not rise much since plants will use nitrates as plant food.

 

[waterdrop]

I suppose we might guess that mature media "inoculation" success follows maybe the 80/20 rule and unfortunately for some reason you may have been on the unsuccessful 20 side of things. You could try another transfer but you don't want to damage the source biofilter. No more than 1/3 of it should be removed for a pretty long time, I'd say.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[aletas]

Thanks OldMan47 & waterdrop for the replies.

I'll just wait another couple of weeks and hopefully like you say OldMan47 the nitrite & nitrate will start to rise and the ammonia will drop. I tested the water again today and everything remains the same since Saturday:
ammonia 2ppm
nitrite 0
nitrates 5ppm

The relative that I got the mature filter media from has 6 FW tanks, but I don't want to ask for another donation, so I guess now it's just a matter of being patient for a while longer. Thanks for your help.

 

[waterdrop]

aletas,

Could you run your tap water stats again? I'm interested in seeing those.

In the Oct 18 post you said that ammonia had been 4ppm the night before and had dropped to 2ppm that morning. And then it stayed at 2ppm through Mon Oct 20. Is this comparible with your previous observations - ammonia making some kind of drop from 5ppm to something less but then hanging there forever?

Please describe what else is in the tank. Type of substrate and where you got it. Plants? Decorations?

What exact type of dechlor was used? Any other chemicals other than tap water, dechlor and ammonia?

Have you been measuring pH all along and if so what has it been?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[aletas]

Hi waterdrop. The ammonia seems to hang at 2ppm until I add more ammonia to bring it back to 4ppm, then it drops to 2ppm and stays there. This has been the pattern since the beginning.

My 20 gallon tank includes:
4 plastic plants
1 silk plant
1 fake rock/cave (resin) with some plastic foliage
1 aerating turtle
1 imitation piece of ancient pottery (resin)
white gravel by Marina

I purchased everything at pet and aquarium stores and I thoroughly rinsed off all decorations and the gravel before adding it to the tank.

When I first set up the tank I used PetSmarts TopFin dechlorinator, but when I have to 'top-off' the tank due to evaporation, I started using API's stress coat (it was the only other dechlor I could find at the time) because it's easier to get a correct ratio of water / dechlor when mixing just a gallon at a time. I haven't added anything else to the tank.

Test results today: Tank: Tap:
ammonia 2.0 ppm 0.25 - 0.50 ppm
nitrite 0 0
nitrate 5.0 0
PH 7.6 (at least) 7.6 (at least)


I haven't been able to get an accurate measurement of PH yet because I only have API's lower range test kit, but according to the city's water plant stats our tap water has a PH of 7.8. I went to two other pet stores this past weekend looking again for a higher range kit, but could only find the strips in one store and decided not to buy them. I've read on many posts that they aren't as accurate as the liquid tests and not to rely on them, so I came home empty-handed. I realize now that by replacing the power filter on Oct 5 that I'm actually back to day 16 as of today.

 

[aletas]

Sorry, the formatting on my test results got messed up in my last post, should read like this:

Test results today:
Tank:
ammonia 2.0 ppm
nitrite 0
nitrate 5.0
PH 7.6 (at least)

Tap:
ammonia 0.25-0.50 ppm
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
PH 7.6 (at least)