Cycling with fish

[Pugwinkle]

Hi Everyone, I'm new to this forum and fairly new to fish. I have done a LOT of reading on the subject and have visited a lot of fish forums in the last little while.

I have read a lot about fishless cycling as well as cycling with fish and I decided that I wanted to cycle my tank with fish. I would like to hear from other members that also cycled with fish and what their experiences were. What procedure did you follow? How many fish did you cycle with? What size of tank was it? What kind of filter? How often did you do water changes, etc. etc. The more info you can give me the better. What type of fish did you use while your tank was cycling and did they survive the cycle?

I have a 30 gallon tank with an Aqua-Clear 300 filter. I am cycling with 6 head and taillight tetras which I purchased yesterday. I also am using an ammonia packet in the filter. This product claims to remove and control toxic ammonia and controls unexpected ammonia spikes. It says it is ideal for new aquarium set ups.

Some people have told me that I should take the ammonia packet out of the filter as it will not allow my tank to cycle. However, I have a hard time believing that. I would think it will still cycle but perhaps not as quick as one without using the the packet. Personally, the way I feel about this is, if my tank will still cycle eventually, but I can control the ammonia during the cycling, then isn't that better for my fish? Your comments would be appreciated.

 

[heresmike]

I started my cycle with fish, and was unfortunately using the wrong kind of fish. I used swordtails, and I guess you're supposed to use platies or zebra danios. To top it off, the swordtails were diseased when I bought them (didn't know it at the time, but visited the fish store a day or two later and they were "under observation" for disease), so they didn't survive. I then decided to do a fishless cycle using pure ammonia. Much easier IMO. My next tank will get started with BioSpira.

I might be leary also about using an ammonia pack in your filter. The filter needs the ammonia in order to cycle. On the other hand, the tetras would probably not survive the ammonia levels produced w/o it.

 

[Nina7777]

Hello,
About two years ago I cycled my 30 gallon tank, which as a penguin filter with bio-wheel, 200watt heater, and bubble wand.

I used 6 fish as well: 2 red eye tetras, 4 platties. I also used an amonia packet.
Unfortunately everyone but my one red eye tetra passed away within a month, so i stupidly went out and bought five more fish, well they all died within a month as well.
Lucky for me but not so lucky for all my fish in the meantime the tank cycled but very slowly. Finally I decided to go out and buy some hardier fish. (which all are in my signature with the exception of the clown loaches which i just bought a month ago.)

My tank has now been up and running for 2 years and my original red eye tetra is still ALIVE! (which IMO is a miracle.)
As we speak i am currently cycling a 10 gallon tank and have alot more knowledge now! I only bought two platties, also i put a handful of gravel from my 30 gallon in a stocking and that is in the tank as well. I am also doing 10% water changes everyday.

So in answer to your question, I personally think you have too many fish even for a 30 gallon, the cycle will be harder to control. I would remove the amonia packet and deal with it by doing 10% water changes everyday, as IMO the amonia will slow down the cycle BIG TIME! Your fish will most definately be ok with the water changes and expessially if you could get your hands on a handful of matured gravel. If you still feel strongly about the amonia packets then just be prepared for the cycle to take alot longer and PLEASE DON"T ADD ANYMORE FISH, untill its complete!

These are just my opinions! and my personal experiences! GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR NEW TANK!

 

[thecichlidaddict]

I always cycle with fish.

1. I only use a few fish. When it comes to tetras they are not hard on the water and they do best in groups - your 6 should be fine. You probably also purchased them fairly small and you should be ok, but as advised, don't even think about adding anything else for a while.

2. Feed lightly, every other day is plenty. Remember that fish need very little food to survive, they are cold blooded. Over feeding will only further pollute the water and increase chances of problems.

3. Buy a testsfor Ammonia and Nitrite and test ammonia regularly. Any time you measure more then .5 ppm, do a water change to bring it down. Do water changes as often as necessary to keep it this way. Every day would not be too much. The idea with fishless cycling is to keep the fish healthy first and formost.

4. Get some established bacteria into your tank. The best source for this is filter media from a mature tank. Place it in your own filter, and get as much as you can - either from a friend or from the LFS. This will speed up the cycle and lower ammonia spike levels - this is a highly recommended step!

5. When you do add more fish (if you add bacteria I'd wait 3 weeks, if you don't I'd wait 5, but more importantly test the water and make sure ammonia and nitrate are both 0) remember to keep adding them in small numbers. At this point the bacteria only needs to expand, and this happens quickly, so you only need to wait a week orso in between additions. Remember to test for ammonia and nitrites after every addition.

6. Don't clean out your filter until the aquarium is well established - let it go a couple of months before the first cleaning, and then remember to clean carefully in aquarium water to avoid losing bacteria. Tip: Place 2 foam sponges in your aquaclear, not only does this double the bio-filtration capabilities of the filter, but it allows you to stagger the foam cleaning so that you always have one that is untouched and healthy.

I think that covers most of it... Good luck!

 

[Osphromenoides]

The way I have always started my tanks (ever since I heard of it) was to add a little natural amonia to the tank. If you know what I mean I know how it sounds but, it really works. I needed to set up immediatly without using any filtration media from another tank. I neede a new environment tank. So< Friday AM I set up the whole tank wood, gravel, filter, heater, etc. added the amonia around 10 ish. Went to store bought live plants (some in pots) and a 6 Rasbora Espii (similar to Harlequin but prettier) came back
acclimated fish while planting tank. I took one of the potted plants I couldn't burry deep enough and took the excess "spongie material" out and put it in my bio filter.
by Friday PM I already had my first bacteria bloom. By Sunday I had my second one and I put the new Chocos in.

Also in tribute to this way I need to explain HOW BADLY TAKEN CARE OF THESE FISH WERE (IN A FISH ONLY STORE) AND THEIR SIGNIFICANT IMPROVMENT UPON ENTERING MY TANK. They had a weeks worth of fungal growth, Ich, hadn't eaten and were lying on the bottom of the hospital tank. (i almost didn't buy them but, since it was my only chance for new stock this year I had no choice.) AND they had a 2.5 hour drive back to my home. 10 minutes after being in my tank their color improved and they were happily swimming to and fro. The next day most of the fin fungus was gone 3 days later. Well , just look at my pic. No ich, and no fungus

 

[thecichlidaddict]

Let me get this straight.

You peed in the tank, added fish right after this, then ich and fungus just disappeared on its own within the next couple of days and the fish started thriving??

I'm assuming that is a joke.

 

[susangc]

Hmmm... looking at my old scientific tables, urine contains:

• Chloride, phosphorous, sulphur, bromide, fluoride, iodide, potassium, sodium, calcium
• Iron, copper, zinc, and other traces
• Urea, which eventually breaks down into ammonia, and uric acid
• A teeny amount of ammonia
• Protein pieces
• Enzymes

It's got an average pH of about 6 and unless one has a UTI, it's sterile.

Joke or not, it sounds more like plant food than ich cure

Susan

 

[Osphromenoides]

really, it is not a joke. I have over 1200 gallons of fish tank in my home. I've been minoring in icthyology for 2 years and i've been keeping fish for 26 years. Ever since 1999 I have always cycled my tanks this way. I've never done it this fast before. But, it has always worked very well for me. I've been testing my water everyday since the start amonia has been minimal to non existant and PH has been hanging around 5-6. Obviously with such a sensitive fish in this tank I would know immediatly but, testing helps

 

[thecichlidaddict]

Interesting...

I can see how your source of ammonia would work, but i don't understand why it would work so quickly without adding any existing bacteria to the tank. To me it sounds like you added ammonia, and then added fish to a tank full of ammonia, yet suddenly bacteria appeared the next day. Am I missing something, or did you leave a step out somewhere? Keep in mind that I have don't have any science degrees, I just know this stuff as it relates to fish.

 

[Osphromenoides]

The bacteria was present on the leaves of the plants and in the potted material. As I said I put the spongie material into my biofilter. also I tried to get plants with lots of surface area. Bacopa , Anubias Nana and Gigantia, Hygro and that smaller species of anacharis, I can't remember the name at the moment. The was also a small amount of water in these bags also.

 

[heresmike]

I was thinking this cycling with human urine thing was a joke until I did a google search and found some links that make reference to it.

Examples...
http/saltaquarium.about.com/cs/bionitrog.../a/aa042403.htm
http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/star.../fishless.shtml
http/www.aquamaniacs.net/cyclingsafelyfishless.html

The last link says it's not advised... but doesn't say why.

 

[Osphromenoides]

My theory in this is purly about cycling. I wasn't trying to imply that this way of cycling "cured" my fish. With such a short notice and lack of avaiability of these fish I needed a quick solution for set up. The fact that they didn't have to be placed in a tank partway through the nitrogen cycle and that I've provided them with their healthy and most natural habitat is why I feel they got better so quickly. The happier and healthier a fish is the better it can fight off and are less suceptible to common diseases.

 

[Pugwinkle]

Tip: Place 2 foam sponges in your aquaclear, not only does this double the bio-filtration capabilities of the filter, but it allows you to stagger the foam cleaning so that you always have one that is untouched and healthy.

I think that covers most of it... Good luck!

Hi thechichlidaddict,
I thought adding an extra sponge would be a great idea especially since I also want to set up more tanks and thought it would be great to have a sponge already to go for a new tank. Anyway, I want to keep the ammonia insert in the filter while I'm cycling because even though it may take longer to cycle the tank, I do feel it's best for the fish. Is it okay to take the carbon insert out so I can put in another sponge or do I need the carbon filter in there for any reason? If I can take the carbon filter out, is there some way to save it for future if I need it? It's only three days old and seems a shame to just throw it away if I can somehow keep it for future.