Cycling Question (Nitrates Never Really Spiked)

[lzep]

i have a 20 gallon i've had setup for about 3 weeks and cycled with 3 barbs and 3 danios.

using the API testing kit the following happened:

1. ammonia spiked to about 2 PPM
2. after a week or so ammonia went to 0 and nitrites spiked to about 2 ppm
3. from about 10-20 days the ammonia stayed at 0 and nitrites stayed spiked around 2ppm with nitrates gradually increasing to 5-10 ppm
4. now it's been about 3 weeks and i checked the water this morning and the ammonia was at 0.25 - 0.50 (light light green), the nitrites were at 0 and the nitrates were a little bit on the low side of 5 ppm

throughout this process i changed 20% of the water every day.

my question is my tank fully cycled? why the sudden small increase in ammonia? how come the nitrates never fully spiked?

also, throughout these 3 weeks i fed my fish sparingly, small pinches maybe once or twice a day. i did bloodworms 2-3 times in the 3 week period as well. no fish died and everyone's swimming around looking happy and active.

 

[KittyKat]

It is not fully cycled. Keep ammonia and nitrite always under 0.25ppm.. I have seen this "odd" cycling when people go fish-in. It is likely that it will take another few weeks for ammonia and nitrite to disappear completely.

 

[lzep]

on some advice from a friend i just tested my tap water and compared it to my fish tank water. about the same exact color, so i guess the tank is fully cycled?

i guess my tap has about 0.25 ppm of ammonia in it already. i've been using prime during every water change. i read that even though the prime will neutralize the ammonia it will still show up on tests?

 

[KittyKat]

No: that just means you either don't have bogwood, nor soft (calcium rich) rocks or you have both in amounts where they cancel each other out.

What is your pH?

 

[lzep]

No: that just means you either don't have bogwood, nor soft (calcium rich) rocks or you have both in amounts where they cancel each other out.

What is your pH?

around 7.6-7.8

i also have about a 3 pound piece of driftwood in there with an amazon sword and two anubias. and i'm using the smallish sized gravel about 1/2 - 1-1/2 inch high

 

[KittyKat]

Fish-in cycling is just generally slow.. you'll just have to sit it out. Do not be surprised if it takes some 6 odd weeks.

For the moment, the only thing you can do is keep the ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm as they will harm your fish long-term if you let them rise over that.

 

[lzep]

alright thanks!

one last question about using prime. does this neutralize the ammonia/nitrites so that if they happen to show over 0.25 ppm they wont harm the fish long term?

 

[KittyKat]

/me spends a few minutes Googling
/me finds http/www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Prime.html
/me reads how it works

Conclusion: it probably converts NH[sub]3[/sub] into NH[sub]4[/sub][sup]+[/sup], but at pH of 7.4-7.6 it might very well convert back into NH[sub]3[/sub] as there need to be more H[sup]+[/sup] for it to be converted to NH[sub]4[/sub][sup]+[/sup] (in very crude and basic terms, reality is more complicated).

So, in short: I have no idea because Seachem don't say how they do it, but I personally wouldn't trust them.

 

[Geoff-]

Any time your pH is above 7 you cannot let your ammonia get over 0.50ppm or it will be instant fish death. If your pH is near 8 or above than 0.25ppm is your maximum, ammonia is a big problem in alkaline waters.

I would not trust Prime or any other ammonia "converter" to safely lock it away. Just do water changes and then you know the level of ammonia is low.

 

[Rynofasho]

I think 'instant fish death' is a bit much haha. My tank cycled away at around 7.8-8.0 pH and sometimes my ammonia was 0.5 or higher and my nitrites measured 2.0ppm and my fish were fine using Prime. Just do double doses as it doesn't hurt, and yes, it will neutralize ammonia and nitrites to make them substances that are less harmful to fish. They won't actually convert back to ammonia and nitrites, however obviously as your tank goes along, the concentration will creep up as the fish put off waste.

Just religiously change your water on a daily basis, and sometimes twice if you think it needs it, and be sure to keep the water conditioned with Prime and if you have tough fish (I had Danios) they will be fine. If your levels get any higher, be sure to change at least around 50% of the water to bring everything back down.

 

[KittyKat]

Any time your pH is above 7 you cannot let your ammonia get over 0.50ppm or it will be instant fish death. If your pH is near 8 or above than 0.25ppm is your maximum, ammonia is a big problem in alkaline waters.

I think 'instant fish death' is a bit much haha.

There are species for whom this would be insta-death. For the rest, their lifespan will be shortened and they will be more likely to have health problems later in life.

 

[waterdrop]

Agree with KK. The days of thinking that Fish-In cycles that are not strictly controlled to keep the poisons down at and below the 0.25ppm threshold will be ok for the fish are long gone. Fish can have permanent damage to gills (from ammonia) and to red blood cells and nerves (from nitrite) without reaching the point of displaying the crude visible symptoms that we as casual observers would label as "damage" (red gills, lethargy, washed out coloration, erratic behavior.)

Sure there are tables that combine concentration and pH to give rough "deadliness" numbers and yes, the good conditioners will attempt to lock up problems for a number of hours after dosing, but the effectiveness of these things pales in comparison to adjusting the water change percentages such that 0.25-0.30ppm maximum concentrations are maintained. Either of these things might give you some peace of mind in very difficult situations but its really better not to ever get in to the situation in the first place.

~~waterdrop~~