Cycling In A 5 Gallon Bucket

[4seasons]

When you say how much ammonia you are runnign through, you aren't dosing that high are you? not above 4ppm at once?

I think I read that funny. It looks like you are getting really close. Once you can start tracking the nitrites on the chart, you are on the downhill of the cycle! It will probably feel fast after that.

I have been running 2ppm ammonia for a while. Once I saw that going in 24 hours I went to 4ppm to see if it could clear that. When it cleared in 24 hours I gave it a 8ppm dose that cleared in 36 hours. So in total I have ran 19ppm ammonia thru with no water changes. But the highest I have ever dosed is 8ppm and only did that once to see how fast it would clear. Now I have done a water change to get the nitrites back on the chart so I can see if they are starting to go down.

 

[4seasons]

Ok I am trying to grasp the idea,
A filter will process a said amount of ammonia / Nitrite in a given period,
However to dose a 5 gal system as compared to a 55 gal system a measurable lvl of dosing to 4ppm could vary from .5ml to 2.5ml.. is this even a viable comparison??
The measured amount in a lesser volume is hardly comparable to the ultimate goal in my opinion.

The measurement should be somewhat equal to the eventual useful / expected load of the stock. not based on a dilution in a markedly smaller volume of water that will only lead to a higher, possibly toxic to the bacteria secondary result ..

This goes against everything I have read.. I don't think it will produce a good result. And if it does it will only lead to a crash once introduced to a higher volume situation.

Again I am new but trying to FULLY understand the mechanics

Sounds like you have a good grasp of the nitrogen cycle. You are right about the tiny 5 gallon bucket that I am cycling not producing a filter that could handle the bio-load of a fully stocked 55 gallon. However that was not my goal. This is just an experiment as I fell into the trap of buying a fish and fish tank on the same day like many beginners do. I didn't learn about fishless cycling till after I had lost 2 fish.
My goal with this experiment has changed somewhat since I started it. The 10 gallon tank that I was going to put this filter in has now been fully cycled using the fish in method. I am more doing this to study the fishless cycle. The end goal is more knowledge than a fully cycled filter. Although I will have some good filter media when I get done, and I may use it to jump-start the cycle on a larger tank, I would not assume that this tiny filter in a large tank would ever keep up with many fish. It may work for a fry tank or maybe a hospital/ quarantine tank though.

Oh in case you were wondering the ammonia that I am using takes 0.25ml to dose my 5 gallon bucket to a 1ppm reading. So if my math is right I would think that if I can clear 1 ml ammonia (4ppm dose) in 24 hours in a 5 gallon bucket I should be able to clear 1 ml ammonia in a 10 gallon (2ppm dose) in the same amount of time. So if I can get it to clear 8ppm dose (2ml) in this bucket it should handle 4ppm in a tank twice as big right? Or 1ppm in a 20 gallon? Even if my math is off a little I should still be able to stick the media from this little filter into a big filter in a big tank and have a huge jump start on a completely uncycled filter.

 

[FishFanatic04]

When you say how much ammonia you are runnign through, you aren't dosing that high are you? not above 4ppm at once?

I think I read that funny. It looks like you are getting really close. Once you can start tracking the nitrites on the chart, you are on the downhill of the cycle! It will probably feel fast after that.

I have been running 2ppm ammonia for a while. Once I saw that going in 24 hours I went to 4ppm to see if it could clear that. When it cleared in 24 hours I gave it a 8ppm dose that cleared in 36 hours. So in total I have ran 19ppm ammonia thru with no water changes. But the highest I have ever dosed is 8ppm and only did that once to see how fast it would clear. Now I have done a water change to get the nitrites back on the chart so I can see if they are starting to go down.

OK there's a big red flag here. You don't need to dose higher then 4ppm at all ever. Higher ammonia levels can grow the wrong sort of bacteria. I only dose to 2ppm every time the tank clears the ammonia. Dosing to 8ppm ammonia is potentially harmful to your cycle. Just letting you know now.

 

[4seasons]

When you say how much ammonia you are runnign through, you aren't dosing that high are you? not above 4ppm at once?

I think I read that funny. It looks like you are getting really close. Once you can start tracking the nitrites on the chart, you are on the downhill of the cycle! It will probably feel fast after that.

I have been running 2ppm ammonia for a while. Once I saw that going in 24 hours I went to 4ppm to see if it could clear that. When it cleared in 24 hours I gave it a 8ppm dose that cleared in 36 hours. So in total I have ran 19ppm ammonia thru with no water changes. But the highest I have ever dosed is 8ppm and only did that once to see how fast it would clear. Now I have done a water change to get the nitrites back on the chart so I can see if they are starting to go down.

OK there's a big red flag here. You don't need to dose higher then 4ppm at all ever. Higher ammonia levels can grow the wrong sort of bacteria. I only dose to 2ppm every time the tank clears the ammonia. Dosing to 8ppm ammonia is potentially harmful to your cycle. Just letting you know now.

Haven't heard that 8ppm would cause a problem before. Not sure I understand why the wrong bacteria would grow at a higher level. I would like to hear more and read up on this wrong bacteria and why a high level would cause it.

 

[FishFanatic04]

Well, I am not scientific enough to have the answer on hand. However this is something I have been reading about a lot recently and there has been some good arguments. I'll take some time later and try to find the threads.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Exceeding 5 ppm of either ammonia or nitrite will retard a cycle and may even kill off some of the bacteria. I have posted about this numerous times on the site and have provided links to various scientific studies that show this in a number of those posts. A small filter in a bucket with gravel will not likely offer sufficient surface areas for the amount of bacteria trying to be created. At the flow rate most larger filters would run it would be hard, if not impossible, for the bacteria to stay attached to stuff outside the filter in a 5 gal bucket.

Also, there is more than a miniscule amount of bacteria outside the filter media of the average stocked and filtered tank.

Done properly, a fishless cycle with no form of seeding should be completed in 30-45 days. One should see some nitrites in 10-12 days. Ammonia dosing is in the 2-3 ppm range, and not daily.

The reason the wrong bacteria would colonize is due to the fact there are different types of ammonia oxidizing bacteria. Some thrive in lower levels of ammonia such as a functioning fish tank contains. Others thrive in the high ammonia levels of waste water treatment. When too much ammonia is dosed, it will encourage the types of bacteria that thrive on higher ammonia levels and discourage the ones the do better at the lower level.