Curious about Cichlids

[dixaisy930]

I've really only had livebearers, and corys (well, i have a dwarf puffer too), but it sounds to me that cichlids are very different from any of them.

I was just curious about good starter cichlids, tank sizes, hardiness, and such. They always seem to be real entertaining.

I know they can only be with other cichilds, but I've read and seen them in with other fish (barbs, and cories).

I was really interested in cichlids when I saw just tiny baby's (maybe an inch long) in a petstore. I could have bought the whole tank!! lol But I really didn't want them to kill all of my fish. lol THANKS

 

[smb]

You are correct in your fascination of cichlids.

Please don't be afraid to ask any questions. I know less about live bearers than you do cichlids.

There are many different types of cichlids with different colors, sizes and temperaments.

We'd love to help you out in choosing the right tank and cichlids for it.

What size tank do you have and what is the temperament of the fish do you want? Do you want many fish or one solo bigger fish?

 

[YngUrbanCMH]

I'm pretty new to cichlids myself, so I hope you'll take my experience for what it's worth. My experience so far is that easy and beginner suited fish is all relative. Many cichlids can deal with a variety of water conditions, stability is the most important factor as their native environment is extremely static. South American species tend to prefer soft acidic conditions, while African rift varieties are native to harder alkiline waters. It seems easier to me to match your fish to your local water parameters. It's well worth taking the time to research what fish you would like to keep now, and then in the future so you can make the right decision right off. Otherwise you're stuck with a bunch of fish from one bio-tope, and wanting fish from another. You're basically stuck either getting rid of what you have, or buying another tank.

I've had very good luck with Pelviachromis Pulcher (sometimes called Kribensis) in my 30 gallon community tank, they even spawned. In an attempt to slowly lower my pH, I caused it to crash from 7.6 to 6.8 last month... they survived fine. They are a bit territorial, but thrive in a pretty wide variety of conditions and seem to do well in community tanks. I've read a few message threads from people that they've had extremely aggressive Kribs... I guess fish are just like people, some are even tempered and some get hot headed. Kribs are a West African species, and kind of the exception to the hard water, high pH rule.

 

[dixaisy930]

Well, I'm sure I'd have to get another tank, right? I assume when you say "community tank" you mean a "cichlid community tank".

When I was asking the person at the pet store about the tiny cichlids (they just said assorted cichlids...some were yellow, blue, orange...all with faint white stripes) she said they will kill anything besides cichlids...and that you can't even had South African cichlids with "regular" ones.

I guess I'd probably just want "hardy beginner" cichlids that aren't terribly expensive, in case I really screw up and they die. Right now I don't think I'd be able to handle anything over a ten gallon.

It was just wishful thinking that if I got the "assorted" cichlid young enough, he would think he was a platy.

 

[smb]

When you say "assorted cichlids" you must mean Africans? That means they are crossbred.

I can't suggest any cichlid that could live in a 10g tank tho.

she said they will kill anything besides cichlids...and that you can't even had South African cichlids with "regular" ones.

No offense meant, but no matter what cichlids she means, she doesn't know what she's talking about. I hate to sound negative, but I feel I have to to try and give you good advice here, so please forgive me. Most people at all lfs's don't have a clue at all about any fish whatsoever and I would never take anyones advice from a lfs, as a general rule.

What are South African Cichlids and what are "regular" ones? All cichlids are regular and almost all cichlids will kill any other ones regardless of topography, if given the chance. You have peaceful ones in quite a few species of cichlids, whether it be rams, kribs, some from Tanganyika etc. but it just sounds like too general and bad advice to me.

Hope you understand that I'm only being brutally honest here to try and help you and give you the best advice I can to prevent you making a mistake and buying cichlids for a 10g.

 

[dixaisy930]

lol, I appreciate you being honest with me...

I'm still a little unclear though...can cichlids be with fish other than cichlids?

At this petstore, they had them divided into two categories...one was "African Cichlids" and the others were "South African Cichlids". I'm not really sure what they meant by that...like I said, I know squat about cichlids. lol

How about I just figure out some of the basics for cichlids? Like suitable tankmates (can they only be with that same breed of cichlids?), how much room do they need. etc...lol

* a little off subject* I completely agree that the individuals that work at petstores don't always know what they are talking about...I have a dwarf puffer (supposively semi-aggressive) in with platys and corys (peaceful community fish), and I've never had a problem.

You would think I would learn by now to come to the forums and do my own research before asking lfs employees. lol

 

[-=DG=-]

I've also heard of cichlids being said to be good beginner fish. I suppose they look after themselves. But as a beginner, you may not understand their behaviour and add in other fish who will get hammered! And you gotta understand their requirements as well.

With everything, if you read up first, anythings easy to do I've got malawi (african cichlids) and they are the best fish i've ever had.

Oh yeah you cant (or shouldnt) mix africans and south americans (dont think it woild be south africans) together. Different water requirements etc.

 

[cichlidmaster]

I agree with smb on all but one point...........

Not ALL "assorted cichlids" are cross bred!! I have many suppliers that I bring in fish from and most of them offer assorted cichlids. These assorteds come with the species name and are high quality fish.

This simply is a way for a shop to get more fish for their buck as they are relatively inexpensive and the store can and usually does pass the savings to the customer in the way of lower prices.

A good many shops bring these in for the cutomer who may want many different species, but only one of each!!

In the case of your lfs tho, I would have to say their origins are less that perfect. When a tank of very small cichlids is lableled "assorted" chances are they are not only hybrids (cross spawned) but the species is not known as well.

Could the tank labeled "South African" maybe have said "South American"??

In any event if looking for a suitable cichlid to house in a 10 gallon tank look to go with Lamprologus multifasciatus.

This is one of the fish known as a shelldweller. It will do great in a 10 gallon tank as will most of the "shelldwellers"

These fish are African cichlids that come from Lake Tanganyika and are readily available.

There are several other species of shelldwellers as well and in so much as they all stay relatively small (1-1.5") would be suitable for a 10 gallon tank.

On last comment........water parameters for cichlids........

While it's true that a few species need a ph as close to their native waters as possible, this is NOT the case with most of them!!

Keep in mind....unless you are bringing in or buying "wild caught" cichlids, most of the cichlids you see available are either pond or tank raised. They are done so in a ph of 7-7.4.

It is a falicy to believe one must keep a Tanganyikan cichlid in a ph of 9 (Lake Tanganyika's ph is 9) for this fish to thrive.

I have bred many species of African cichlids in a ph of 7.2-7.4 with great success.

It can do more harm than good to try to adjust your ph to the values of the fishes natural habitat then to leave the ph alone.

Most, if not all LFS could not afford to adjust all their cichlid tanks to the lake values the cichlids come from. It is not only to time consuming but a added needless expense that would inevitably be passed on to the cutomer via higher prices!!

Therefore if the LFS you are getting you cichlids from is relatively close to your home it is a good bet their ph is the same as the ph of your tap water!!


HTH

CM

 

[YngUrbanCMH]

Would like to qualify what I meant by "community tank", I have a pair of p. pulcher in a general community tank... it's not limited to cichlids. Currently it has 3 mollies, a school of tetras, a school of tiger barbs, a few yo yo loaches, and a few ottocinclus. My kribs have staked out a small area of the tank as "theirs", but coexist relatively peacefully with the rest of the inhabitents. They even occasionally tolerate my otto's coming to clean off their cave, and my yo yo loaches to clean up left-over bits of food.

When I introduced the kribs, my mindset was that they were going to be my favorite inhabitants, and if I lost any other fish so be it... as long as the kribs were ok

 

[Waterloo Kid]

I've got a few German Rams in my community tank. They live happily with the other inhabitants and cause no problems. They are fully grown at about 2.5 inches. Some people report them to be a little delicate and I did have one of them die for no apparent reason. My remaining three are all thriving and only ever fight amongst themselves. They never fight for long and never injure each other.

If you want chiclids then I recommend that you invest in a bigger tank so that you can watch the interaction of a few differnt species or individuals from the same species. It's their characters that attract people, and they can only show the full range of behaviour in a suitably sized and set up tank. You WILL get your monies worth!

WK

 

[smb]

I agree with smb on all but one point...........

Not ALL "assorted cichlids" are cross bred!! I have many suppliers that I bring in fish from and most of them offer assorted cichlids. These assorteds come with the species name and are high quality fish.

You're correct, cichlidmaster. I meant what was probably in the lfs dixaisy930 was at. I usually see a tank set up as "assorted" cichlids in lfs's and are usually not known what they are or crossbred.

I shouldn't have generalized as I didn't even think of the aspect of importing/exporting fish when I posted that reply.

Thanks for the headsup and correcting my misinformation.

 

[cichlidmaster]

Hey smb,

No problem!! Wasn't trying to one up you or anything fer sure!!

You are correct tho.....a good many shops will take in fish not knowing what they are and "dump" them in a tank, price them out cheap and call them "assorted/mixed" Africans.

As stated however, in this case it is a good bet they are "mutts"!!

SMB,
Keep up the great work!! your advice and knowledge is very much welcome and appreciated here, and please feel free to call me CM!!

It's a whole lot easier to type!!

CM

 

[dixaisy930]

Would these "mutts" be a good started cichlid for me? What size tank would i need for three or four? Or would I need more of them to be a happy community? I would assume these might be too aggressive for other "common" fish (like barbs and such).

 

[smb]

Would these "mutts" be a good started cichlid for me?  What size tank would i need for three or four?  Or would I need more of them to be a happy community?  I would assume these might be too aggressive for other "common" fish (like barbs and such).

They might not be mutts or inbreds at all, but as you've seen CM and I converse here, they pretty much might be.

They might be a full blooded African species but the lfs didn't have the knowledge or want to take the time to classify them is all, and threw them all into 1 or 2 tanks and just half-priced them for their own convienance. Either way, Africans are way to quick to even think aboout putting into a community tank with any community fish whatsoever.

I only keep the meanest and most aggro CA's there are and some of them get over a foot and some I've had get to 2 feet, but I keep Mbunas, which never grow over 4-5", and they hold their own or are too quick against any 10-25" CA, so I can never suggest keeping Africans with community fish at all.

There are some very nice and peaceful African species for sure, but if I had to make a generalized statement, Africans are the quickest and most aggro fish you can ever buy.

They are beautiful fish and well worth having, but should only be kept together or, like in my case, kept with bigger fish they won't harrass or kill.

 

[YngUrbanCMH]

Here's a list of "beginner" cichlids broken down by biotope and recommended tank size... I don't know enough to know if this is a good list.. but I found it the other day.

Species Recommendations For Beginners

Here's another link with some cookie cutter setups and other useful links...
Quick Reference