CPD floating Problems

[rom]

I just bought some new celestial pearl danios, I've maybe had them for about 2 weeks and one is starting to show signs that something is wrong. Whenever it stops swimming, it's back end floats upward. They don't seem to be showing any other signs of illness other than they seem to be shyer than usual, not coming out to the front. They eat Hikari Micro Pellets. He's definitely not able to stay horizontal for long. I've treated with some Interpet internal bacteria medication but that all.

Any ideas for what the problem is/ what I should do?

Tank parameters:
10Gallons/40L
22C/73F
NO3:25
NO2:0
GH:8
KH:15
PH:8
6 CPDs, 3 otos, 3 amano shrimp, 1 nerite, many MTS

 

[hansgruber7]

It's hard to say if it's just one having trouble. It sounds like maybe a swim bladder problem. I have a 20 gallon CPD tank and I found they are quite sensitive to water quality issues, especially when they are young. I let ammonia creep up when I was a beginner and didn't know what I was doing and I lost several unfortunately. I would check your ammonia levels as they are extra sensitive to that when they are young. I also found that adding an airstone helped because my oxygen levels were low (my young CPDs were hanging out at the surface all the time before they died.) Once I got my ammonia consistently to zero and an airstone, they have been thriving. Your PH is a little high, but that's probably not your immediate problem.

Also, I think your tank is a little overstocked and could be contributing to your problem in terms of bioload and making your CPDs more shy than they would otherwise be. Personally, I think it would be ideal without the otos. They really need more space. A 10 Gallon with 6 CPDs and some shrimp and a nerite would be much better.

 

[rom]

Ok thanks, i'll try and test ammonia levels, hope I havent got any. It's a heavily planted tank with a relatively large external canister filter, it's been running for over a year so I would be very suprised if it did. Could probably use more surface agitation, I usually avoid airstones because my water is very hard and leaves white limescale marks everywhere, very unsightly but not a dealbreaker. Could add some botanicals too, to lower the PH.

 

[seangee]

Don't think I would call that overstocked. If you have visible limescale there is nothing you can do to lower the pH in your tank so don't bother trying. You could use different water (mix 50/50 RO) as the otos don't thrive in such hard water.

It is possible to reduce the KH by boiling your water and letting it cool. That may allow your pH to drop but pH is not your problem - it will make your tank look better (no more limescale) but it costs a lot to boil that amount of water. Store bought CPDs are often in poor health and (unfortunately) losses in the first few weeks are common. When I bought mine I made sure they had been in the store tank for over a month before I took them, that way the store took the hit and not me.

 

[Colin_T]

pictures and video of the fish?

 

[rom]

pictures and video of the fish?

Sorry but that's probably not possible, they are shy and I have a tank with lots of hiding places. The camera scares them away immediately. His colours are healthy enough, (not majorly washed-out). He does not look bloated, or particularly thin. He still likes to spar with the other males and I'm not noticing clamped fins. He does hide a little more than he did before this problem started occurring. the CPDs move in little spurts, then stop and flutter between each spurt (its very pretty to watch). When he stops his tail starts to lift, but then he starts swimming again. If he were to stay still i'm sure he would float vertically, with his tail pointing to the surface, but he swims too much for that to happen.

I've done some more research i think it is a swimbadder problem. I've decided to raise the temperature to 26C/80F for a bit. I'm thinking it might be the food that he's having trouble with, although the food is called hikari 'micro pellets' they do expland quite a bit in water and the fish are very small. I'm thinking he might have overeaten at some point and is having a hard time digesting. I'm going to fast them for a few days and keep the temperature high. I've also bought some peas that I might try feeding them after. Other websites recommend epsom salt, but i'm worried about using it as I have snails and shrimp.

 

[rom]

Don't think I would call that overstocked. If you have visible limescale there is nothing you can do to lower the pH in your tank so don't bother trying. You could use different water (mix 50/50 RO) as the otos don't thrive in such hard water.

It is possible to reduce the KH by boiling your water and letting it cool. That may allow your pH to drop but pH is not your problem - it will make your tank look better (no more limescale) but it costs a lot to boil that amount of water. Store bought CPDs are often in poor health and (unfortunately) losses in the first few weeks are common. When I bought mine I made sure they had been in the store tank for over a month before I took them, that way the store took the hit and not me.

Gotta admit, did not ask how long the store had had the CPDs. Unfortunatly, I can't afford something like an RODI unit. I change the water very regularly, so it would be extremely expensive to buy distilled water too. Gonna have to deal with hard water, sorry otos. Soft water must be a dream, I can't imagine not constantly scraping off hard water marks. There are products in my local pet store that claim to lower pH, from companies like API. They're expensive and kinda dubious to me?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Other websites recommend epsom salt, but i'm worried about using it as I have snails and shrimp.

Epsom salt isn't to be added to a tank, it's used for salt baths, it draws fluid out of a bloated fish, you're meant to place the affected fish into an epsom salt bath for 15-20 minutes.

Aquarium or rock salt can be added to a tank (depending on livestock) but not epsom salts.

 

[rom]

Epsom salt isn't to be added to a tank, it's used for salt baths, it draws fluid out of a bloated fish, you're meant to place the affected fish into an epsom salt bath for 15-20 minutes.

Aquarium or rock salt can be added to a tank (depending on livestock) but not epsom salts.

Ah thank you, Its gonna be very difficult to catch him without ruining my aqua scape, so maybe i'll do this as a last resort. I won't add any salts to the tank epsom or otherwise, don't think I need to?

 

[seangee]

There are products in my local pet store that claim to lower pH, from companies like API. They're expensive and kinda dubious to me?

They won't work in your case. Limescale is calcium carbonate (CaCO3). The carbonate (CO3) is a pH buffer which reacts with hydrogen ions (the H in pH) to form bicarbonate (HCO3) which neutralises the acid. So anything you add to reduce the pH will be neutralised by the CO3 until the CO3 has all been used up. If you have visible limescale you have a lot of CO3 in your water and this will cause a yo-yo effect on the pH, which is far worse for fish than being in water that is too basic. So its best to leave the pH where it is.

CPD are not prone to overeating or eating too fast (I have over 30). The ones you bought have most likely been starved and will be skinny. They are also likley juveniles so fasting is probably not a great idea. I would make sure the water is clean and fresh and keep a watchful eye.
Here are some of mine

That's a piece of an Omega One veggie round they are attacking. It has a lot less filler than Hikari food and does not swell nearly as much. Other favourites are microworms or something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000GB7G3M/?tag= - you will only need a tiny amount for 6 CPDs.

Just FWIW I would have at least 15 in a 10G. They will be much less shy if there are enough of them.

 

[rom]

CPD are not prone to overeating or eating too fast (I have over 30). The ones you bought have most likely been starved and will be skinny. They are also likley juveniles so fasting is probably not a great idea. I would make sure the water is clean and fresh and keep a watchful eye.
Here are some of mine

That's a piece of an round they are attacking. It has a lot less filler than Hikari food and does not swell nearly as much. Other favourites are microworms or something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000GB7G3M/?tag= - you will only need a tiny amount for 6 CPDs.

Just FWIW I would have at least 15 in a 10G. They will be much less shy if there are enough of them.

ohh ok thanks so much for the advice, you have some lovely CPDs. I will deffo keep ontop of my water quailty and try some of the foods you've recommended. I'm not going to feed them any more hikari micro pellets because they don't look very 'micro' to me and i've seen some of the cpds eat them whole. I'll try some peas tomorrow and some tetra flake food that I have already. I also use hikari algea wafers for the otos/shrimp/snails. The cpds don't touch em though. I'm just gonna change food brands anyway i think, not very satisfied with hikari.

 

[Colin_T]

Stop feeding dry foods for a week and use frozen or live. If the problem resolves itself after a week without dry food, then it is air in the fish's intestine that is causing it to float. The air gets ingested when fish take food from the surface and from the actual dry food having air in it.

If the problem persists after a week without any dry food, then it has a swim bladder problem and there is no cure for swim bladder problems, regardless of what some companies might try to sell you.

 

[hansgruber7]

They won't work in your case. Limescale is calcium carbonate (CaCO3). The carbonate (CO3) is a pH buffer which reacts with hydrogen ions (the H in pH) to form bicarbonate (HCO3) which neutralises the acid. So anything you add to reduce the pH will be neutralised by the CO3 until the CO3 has all been used up. If you have visible limescale you have a lot of CO3 in your water and this will cause a yo-yo effect on the pH, which is far worse for fish than being in water that is too basic. So its best to leave the pH where it is.

CPD are not prone to overeating or eating too fast (I have over 30). The ones you bought have most likely been starved and will be skinny. They are also likley juveniles so fasting is probably not a great idea. I would make sure the water is clean and fresh and keep a watchful eye.
Here are some of mine

That's a piece of an Omega One veggie round they are attacking. It has a lot less filler than Hikari food and does not swell nearly as much. Other favourites are microworms or something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000GB7G3M/?tag= - you will only need a tiny amount for 6 CPDs.

Just FWIW I would have at least 15 in a 10G. They will be much less shy if there are enough of them.

Wow. I love your tank and your CPDs. How long have you had the 15 in the 10G? Everything going well? Nothing else in there? I only have 8 in my 20G along with 4 Kuhli loaches. You've inspired me to get at least a few more CPDs as I just love those fish. Didn't realize that I could probably add more with no problems.

By the way, OP, I've been feeding my CPDs the fish fry food from Aquarium Co Op which they seem to love and it's very small so maybe it would be better on their digestive system. But I think you're right that it's a swim bladder/digestive problem your one fish is experiencing. Hope he gets better!

 

[seangee]

Wow. I love your tank and your CPDs. How long have you had the 15 in the 10G? Everything going well? Nothing else in there? I only have 8 in my 20G along with 4 Kuhli loaches. You've inspired me to get at least a few more CPDs as I just love those fish. Didn't realize that I could probably add more with no problems.

By the way, OP, I've been feeding my CPDs the fish fry food from Aquarium Co Op which they seem to love and it's very small so maybe it would be better on their digestive system. But I think you're right that it's a swim bladder/digestive problem your one fish is experiencing. Hope he gets better!

I actually have over 30 in there. Its a 15G Fluval Flex. Also 6 Otos, a nerite and lots of malaysian trumpet snails and red rili shrimp. I added 24 CPD in April 18. I have never tried to save eggs or fry so the population stays fairly static. I have had fry and I have lost some. Shrimps eat CPD eggs (so do CPD) and CPD eat shrimplets.

Here's the tank a few weeks ago (I'm not home now to take a realtime pic) - and yes, the CPDs are all in there

And just for fun

 

[ClownLurch]

ohh ok thanks so much for the advice, you have some lovely CPDs. I will deffo keep ontop of my water quailty and try some of the foods you've recommended. I'm not going to feed them any more hikari micro pellets because they don't look very 'micro' to me and i've seen some of the cpds eat them whole. I'll try some peas tomorrow and some tetra flake food that I have already. I also use hikari algea wafers for the otos/shrimp/snails. The cpds don't touch em though. I'm just gonna change food brands anyway i think, not very satisfied with hikari.

Crush the micro pellets with a pestle and mortar.