Couple Question About First Tank...

[Trod673]

Alright, I inherited a 50 gallon tank from my mother from storage and decided to give a freshwater aquarium a try. To fast forward, I have I have had the tank running for 48 hours now. We set up the tank, made sure the water was dechlorinated, made sure there were no ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates, made sure the pH was okay, etc. At this point the tank had run for 24 hours. And when I went to Petsmart, the lady told me I could add 6 or so neon tetras to start cycling and that with such a large tank, and them counting as half inch fish, they wouldn't be hurt by the cycling. (Note there is also a wisteria plant in the tank along with lots of decorations, 3 airstones (2 strips, and a volcano), and some other decorations.) So I put in my fish last night, and watched them for a good 4 or so hours, and everything seemed fine. When I woke up this morning, 3 of the tetras were stuck on the intake guard of the filter.

 The lady at Petsmart told me the fish died from stress because they had just received those fish yesterday and neglected to mention that to me, and so they were moved from tank to tank yesterday and that caused the fish to die, and then float over to the filter intake. Once I noticed the fish, I tested the water and everything came back normal: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, very little nitrate, pH of 7 or so, still no chlorine or anything. When I took the fish that passed back to Petsmart, they gave me three more and said that nothing actually went wrong it was just the stress from being moved so much all in one day. Do you agree with this or could I be at fault? 
 
So now I am back to 6 neon tetras, and they usually swim around together but occasionally I notice one isn't with the other five. Sometimes he joins back up, and sometimes he sits near the bottom in the corner. Is this normal behavior? As I have been writing this, there's more or a group of four and a group of two.
 
Whenever I fed the fish this morning, they didn't seem to interested in the food unless some floated directly in front of them, are they just getting used to the new place? I am using tropical fish flakes from omega one. Any tips on feeding?
 
I also had a question about lighting, I have two T-8 15 watt bulbs, but it's a 50 gallon tank, so I believe this is super low lighting, do you recommend something that will help the Wisteria plant but the neon tetras won't mind? And finally, what kind of schedule should I have the lights on? 
 
Thanks ahead of time for reading/helping out! Here's a picture of the tank! 

 

[missdarwin]

You won't have any ammonia if you had no fish, or your fish are very new to the tank. The ammonia comes from fish waste....

I've just cycled a new freshwater tank and its taken me 6 weeks, I'd be very surprised if you've cycled the tank already?! Did you have old media in the filter that's seeded your tank or something?

Ps it's never wise to trust LFS employees, their job is to sell fish, not give good, sound advice. It will never ever be THEIR fault, the fish dies, even though they frequently sell fish that are poorly, malnourished, diseased, etc...

I'd keep testing your water and making sure your levels say at zero, if they don't you'll need to do some big water changes to keep the levels low. I've been doing this in the last couple of weeks and it seems to have worked....

No idea about the tetras though sorry.....

 

[Trod673]

Yes, the ammonia comes from fish waste, but they said doing this fish-in cycle would be fine on the fish in such a big space. On top of that I added the quick start with the bacteria that is established from the cycle already in it. Looking back this is obviously not the best way to do it, so far levels have't been a problem. I'm aware the ammonia spike won't really be for a couple days, plus the plant helps with that.. 
 
Thanks for your response! I'll definitely be keeping a close eye on the levels and stay prepared from water changes. 

 

[Shelster]

Neons also don't like new set ups, they much prefer tanks that have been well established as in 6+ months

Get ready for many many water changes and potentially the loss of these fish - not ideal to start a cycle with, can be very fragile!

 

[Trod673]

It just irritates me because she specifically said that the chances of the cycling affecting 6 of these fish in a 50 gallon tank was next to none. I guess they really just care about selling fish. I guess it's just time to stay prepared and do my best. They don't seem to have any problems yet, but I guess we'll see. Anybody have any comments on any other of my questions? Thanks for your responses guys.

 

[Shelster]

Yes you do have a large tank which does work in you favour, however neon tetras would have been one of the last fish I would have picked for a 'fish in' cycle if that was the route I was taking

Have a read here: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

Welcome to the forum, any questions just ask as lots of knowledgeable members here - everyone has to start somewhere.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

You have just fallen victim to the mistake made by many first-time fish keepers.  Its a common mistake, and honestly, an understandable one.  LFS are the WORST source for information about keeping fish.  
 
 
 
You are going to want to brush up on the nitrogen cycle.  (There's a link to an old article in the Beginner's Resource Center - it will explain what you have ahead of you.)
 
Nitrogen comes in various forms in the aquarium.  First, as ammonia - waste produced by the fish, both in their poo, and excess food, as well as it is excreted from the fish's gills.  This is poisonous to the fish, even in low concentrations.  This can be dealt with by a bacteria colony living primarily in your filter.  They "eat" it and convert it to nitrIte.  NitrIte is ALSO poisonous to the fish even in low concentrations.  Another bacterial colony (also primarily in your filter) will convert the nitrIte to nitrAte.  NitrAte can also be harmful to the fish, but in far higher levels.  Getting these colonies of bacteria to grow to a sufficient size to keep your ammonia/nitrite levels at "zero" as can be measured by a liquid test kit takes time - the amount of time varies.
 
 
 
There is good news and bad news.
 
 
Big tank will allow you more time before the ammonia reaches a toxic level.  But, once it does (and it will eventually) you'll have to change out more water to bring it down.
 
 
 
Neon tetra used to be very hardy little fish, but from over breeding, they have become a fairly weak fish in the hobby, and I wouldn't suggest getting any neons until the tank had been running for 6 months.  They could very well survive this, but here's what you need to do:  First, get yourself a liquid test kit - the strips are next to useless.  Second, be prepared for a LOT of water changes.  I'd suggest you do 25% daily, even if you get no reading on the test kit, because neons can be particularly sensitive.  Temp match the water (it doesn't need to be exact - within a degree or two is fine), and refill.  Third, if you get a reading for ammonia, do at least a 50% water change, but bigger if necessary.  Doing HUGE water changes will actually be far less stressful for the fish than the ammonia in the water.  Fourth, be patient.  Don't even consider adding new fish to the tank until you have double zero readings for both ammonia and nitrite (with rising nitrate values) for a full week, although I'd suggest at least two weeks.  Then, as you add new fish to the tank at the end of all this, do so very slowly.  No more than 50% of the current bioload at a time, and watch the ammonia/nitrite levels closely after adding them.
 
During this whole process - feed very sparingly.  The fish need far less food than many fishkeepers give them.  Roughly as much as they can eat in 30 seconds - 1 minute.  Neons are mid-water feeders, meaning they prefer the food to kind of float past them and then they eat it.  Occasionally mine will move to the surface to feed, but rarely, and sometimes they will scour the bottom for anything that gets past them (usually only for bloodworms).  You can make flakes drift down quicker by putting it under water when you add it, and swishing your fingers gently.  They will eventually learn when you feed them and will be more receptive.  Remove uneaten food after that minute is up though, because uneaten food will also spike ammonia.
 
 
 
Come back often with any questions you have.  That's what we are here for!

 

[fluttermoth]

I would also recommend that you get as many fast growing plants in the tank as you can. That'll help with any traces of ammonia that will build up in between water changes. Cheap bunched stem plants will do the job; take out any bits that go brown though. You can even just leave them to grow floating, if you don't want to keep them in your set up

 

[Trod673]

Thank you for your input! I am going to follow this to the best of my ability! And I will post back with any questions!
 
Cheap bunched stemmed plants, any certain recommendations or examples of that type?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Good idea flutter!  You didn't get the "Super" for nothing!

 

[fluttermoth]

Good idea flutter!  You didn't get the "Super" for nothing!

 
OP; things like elodea (I know that has a different scientific name now, but most places still call it elodea), cabomba and hornwort should all be easy to get.

 

[Trod673]

I did all my liquid tests and all my levels were fine, etc, and took a sample to the store, they said my levels were great, but I decided to take the fish back to the store. Hopefully they do well back at the store.. I am doing the fish-less cycle with a raw shrimp, thanks guys for all of your help and advice.  I feel much better than I would if I were to watch them all slowly die..
 
Now to watch the nitrogen cycle take place!

 

[Shelster]

I did all my liquid tests and all my levels were fine, etc, and took a sample to the store, they said my levels were great, but I decided to take the fish back to the store. Hopefully they do well back at the store.. I am doing the fish-less cycle with a raw shrimp, thanks guys for all of your help and advice.  I feel much better than I would if I were to watch them all slowly die..
 
Now to watch the nitrogen cycle take place!

Great job trod, awesome!

Now whilst you are waiting you can always pic forum members brains re stocking and compatability

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Good move by you!  
 
You have lots of options with a tank that size.  As Shelster says, pic our brains - we love to fill other people's tanks up!  We're always thinking about what we would do with another tank, were we to get one.
 
For example, if I were to get a 50 gallon tank, I'd probably go with either:
 
Option A: a HIGHLY planted tank, with a big school of Trigonostigma espei (15) and a smaller school of Praecox Rainbowfish (12), with a big school of bronze cories (both bronze and albino) (12), with a nice sized group of Red Cherry Shrimp.
 
Option B: A group of apistogrammas (dwarf S.A. cichlids) (1m, 3f), Cories of some sort (can you tell I like cories?!), and a shoal of bloodfin tetras (15+).
 
Option C: Lake Tanganyika cichlids and a shoal of Boesemanni Rainbowfish.
 
 
Just a few quick thoughts - note that options A and B are for soft, acidic water, while option C is for hard, alkaline water.
 

 

[Trod673]

Glad you guys have approved my move! I definitely feel good about it! 
 
As for the tank... It's so difficult to pick fish, and I'd definitely love your guy's help! I am leaning towards not having a heavily planted tank though, I'm not too big on the green stuff. Maybe one day I'll have a reef tank, and that'll be awesome. (I learned all about saltwater aquariums in my gifted class at the end of middle school, and so I've always wanted fish. Now I'm graduating high school and entering College as a junior, so I'm sticking with freshwater at the moment so it's not unattainable.) 
 
I'm looking for a few schools of fish, but then I want some nice pretty fish, that are a little elaborate, and more in the bigger side, to really finish it off. 
 
Those dwarf S.A. cichlids are very nice, I would definitely love some of those! Would they get a long with a brisltemouth catfish? And hmm, I'm thinking something medium sized and ornate looking... This is all up in the air of course, But I love the suggestions! 
 
Also, can you explain about the hardness/softness of the water and how to change it? Alkaline water is more 7.0, and slightly acidic is around 6.0 I'm assuming? In the fish world, I mean.